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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and we have an interesting guest i

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received an email a while back

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and uh the title in the subject line

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said

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well i gotta this

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caught my attention anyway chris spark

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will be on he has a book

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out he's going to be talking about why

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it's so hard to explain

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not just ufos but a lot of things in the

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world and why science may have trouble

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explaining those things so chris has

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quite a background

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all that information is in our show

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notes

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and i'll also um as you can see

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on youtube facebook and twitch and all

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that

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i am uh on the showboat as i call it

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again

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this time uh there's not going to be any

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power failures like last

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week because i'm right up to a dock

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and it has been a very active dock all

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day hopefully it'll be quiet behind me

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during the show

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i've got the old mute mic and i'll

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miniaturize myself and all that

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so our blog this week is called floated

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into the ufo and that's about that

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manhattan case

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um with linda cortelli i

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she floated re-beings and

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there were witnesses which is really

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strange something about someone going

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across

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the uh the bridge there the brooklyn

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bridge

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which one it is and witnessed this thing

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so it's a crazy story

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i don't know if it's true but um

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but it sure caused a stir way back when

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that happened back in the

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1980s so check that out we have the

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audio blog

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every week as usual charles lear is back

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he skipped one week he's back this week

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and if you support the show i want to

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thank you very much

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and anyone can support the show for just

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two dollars

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or more a month and check out our

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facebook page

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that's uh podcast ufo live i believe

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it's called

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over at facebook there's 20 000 some odd

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people over there

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if you like

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and we're also on twitter as well

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and i got someone else to do a little

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more that work for me

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um i don't really feel like i should go

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into it i'm just not really into social

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media much these days

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and um uh but anyway i'm really excited

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to have our guest

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he lives not far from where i used to

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live in california

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and so it was good to talk to him he and

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i have a lot of

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uh background roots along the way

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new hampshire and uh california and all

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that

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and here he is chris welcome to the show

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thank you martin how are you thanks for

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having me yes

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yes so chris this

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book that you have written is uh is

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pretty interesting and you and i talked

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a little bit about it you know off air

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and it really is uh i i mentioned in a

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nutshell that i had a conversation

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with a friend just yesterday and i said

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you know i don't think we know a lot of

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what is going on around us and that's

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kind of

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the inspiration or an inspiration type

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of

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theme to why you wrote this book is that

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do i have that right

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absolutely yeah um i mean to sort of put

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a little bit of a fine point on it

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there's

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in some scientists in terms of the world

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view there's there's some arrogance

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there

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that in my opinion is sort of not unlike

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the old arrogance as we used to see you

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know when the catholic church was

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sort of the the big guy on the block you

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know

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saying what what you're allowed to talk

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about what you're not allowed to talk

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about

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what's real um i feel like there's a

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there's a way in which science is

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you know it has a reputation for being

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very clear-eyed and

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you know will take all the evidence um

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but you you kind of scratch the surface

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a little and

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it's it's not the case at all um there's

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there's taboo subjects in academics and

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in science

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and you know you and your listeners are

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well aware of uh

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how much human experience is just

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basically ignored

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um by science so

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the book but i think a lot of a lot of

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intelligent people

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um just kind of accept science

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um which i argue doesn't exist we can

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talk about that

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later if you want um

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they a lot of intelligent people uh

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think

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science is giving them this unbiased

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picture of the world um particularly

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ultimate reality

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and the the book just explores all the

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ways you know it sort of pokes holes in

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i'm really curious right off the bat

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about what you mean

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by the phrase science doesn't exist

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so can you go into that a little bit

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that's that i want to hear what you're

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saying about that

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yeah sure um i think we're on a bit of a

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delay but i think it's i think it's

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working out okay

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um so science doesn't exist what exists

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are scientists

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right science is an abstract idea

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um just like god is an abstract idea

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um and so

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it if there's a sort of public vague

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notion that

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something called science exists well

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then of course

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this this fictional thing called science

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of course is interested in reality and

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finding out about reality

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um but if if you think of it as science

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doesn't exist

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scientists human scientists exist

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and human scientists you know they have

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to get tenure they have to

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they have to look respectable to their

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peers they have to get grants they

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they have all sorts of things to think

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about and worry about

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um you know what scientists

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human being scientists out there really

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you know sort of has an incentive to

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explore this

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very very confusing you know as you were

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saying earlier very um

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hit and miss you can't you can't just

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set up a

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a camera on a hill somewhere and expect

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to get

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a sighting um it's a very confusing

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and and we can talk about all this you

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know why it's

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the elements that i think make it so

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confusing for scientists

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um so i think what a lot of scientists

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do

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is instead of saying look uh

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there's real there's legitimate

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experiences out there

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they're happening a lot they're

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confusing

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they're inconsistent uh we can't come up

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with any

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law or equation so and

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they're very inconvenient that's a

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that's a big word in my book

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inconvenience

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so instead of saying all that they say

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oh

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they don't exist that's silly well

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um you know earlier i just threw out the

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topic of

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dark matter and and dark energy um

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on and that was actually a topic in my

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show last week too

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um with a f-16 uh fighter pilot

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i talked a little bit about that um but

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i mean that's another thing that

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you know we can't explain all of that

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but yet

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scientists are convinced that it exists

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right right um

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and that's because there there are

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consistent

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where they can look at the way gallup

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for instance galaxies behave

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um that just is not consistent with

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uh if there was only the kind of matter

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that we can see for instance

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um the galaxies would behave differently

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and this is something they can see

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consistently they can make their

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measurements and then they can

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consistently see that

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the universe is expanding at a certain

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rate that cannot be explained with the

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known energy

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so then they say well there's there's

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this must be this energy and this matter

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out there that's

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causing this um so sure they can talk

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about

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certain unknown things as long as

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they're sort of playing ball

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playing on the scientists terms which

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are a lot to do with consistency

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equations predictability

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uh which which none of this paranormal

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quote paranormal

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um stuff it really is not playing ball

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uh according to the rules of science

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but that doesn't mean it's not real it

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doesn't mean it's not legitimate

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which is what a lot of a lot of

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respectable scientists will say they'll

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just poo poo the whole realm

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now you're actually uh sorry

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um go ahead finish your your thought

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there

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yeah just add a certain and and i was

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just going to say and and it's a realm

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that is

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uh well documented in the history of all

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humanity in all cultures

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uh you know in today's culture they get

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called things like

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ufos bigfoots aliens in other cultures

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very similar phenomenon but it was

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called different things sometimes

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fairies or you know spirits of the dead

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or this that the other so i

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my book also kind of gets gets into the

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historical uh

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dimensions of this type of phenomena

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well um so i think also we should

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probably just touch

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a little bit i should have done this in

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the very beginning but i guess it

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doesn't really matter

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but you do have quite a bit you have an

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interesting background

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so you're not just someone just talking

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you know you you have uh an education

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uh you went to harvard and you want to

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just give a little bit of your

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background

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yes it's a it's a little eclectic um

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you know i i mean i'll preface i'll

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preface my

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uh description of my background by

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saying that

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it is eclectic and and that's i think

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one of the things i can bring to the

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discussion is

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i i i'm not part of a sort of a

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one small culture i um

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i'm not an academic um i'm an artist i

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write poetry

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um i've written screenplays uh comedy

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i've written com i was on the harvard

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lampoon which is a comedy magazine

288
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:42,160
yeah um so i do that or i

289
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:45,600
sort of you know here and there um

290
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:49,360
and i also teach science and math um

291
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:51,279
my father was an academic and a

292
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:53,040
scientist and he's still alive he's

293
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:54,839
retired

294
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:57,600
um and he had a pretty atheist

295
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,760
you know kind of conventionally

296
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:01,839
scientific outlook

297
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:05,120
um my mother uh

298
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:07,760
ended up being a spiritual seeker uh

299
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:10,639
they divorced when i was about nine um

300
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:13,680
and so she was more open to sort of

301
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:18,000
alternative um spiritual kind of areas

302
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:21,519
and so i've been kind of

303
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:23,360
almost like a foot in both worlds in

304
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:24,959
terms of

305
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:29,279
um my mother and my father and i think

306
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:31,920
one of the sort of impetuses behind my

307
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:32,880
book was to

308
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:36,079
you know let we can marry them like we

309
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:38,399
we don't i'm not saying science is

310
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:41,600
is crap and useless at all um

311
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,519
it's obviously we're talking together

312
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:47,360
right now because of science

313
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:51,120
um so so this is this is more the big

314
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:52,160
picture the ultimate

315
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:55,360
um the ultimate view of reality

316
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:57,440
so yeah i i was a biology major at

317
00:13:01,829 --> 00:12:58,480
harvard i

318
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,839
i started writing comedy there um

319
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,079
i taught some i taught some high school

320
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:07,040
uh math and science uh went down to

321
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,160
l.a with a writing partner and uh we

322
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:12,480
we got an agent i i had some success

323
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:14,800
with uh with a script down there

324
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,920
um i ended up not really liking la and

325
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:19,680
hollywood this sort of just wasn't my

326
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:21,040
scene

327
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:24,240
so uh came back up to the the bay area

328
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:26,079
in northern california

329
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,560
uh where my mom and my sister live so i

330
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:30,639
kind of have roots up here

331
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:33,600
um and and i wrote another screenplay up

332
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:34,800
here

333
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:38,720
um and then i started getting actually

334
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:41,680
into into the guitar so i learned that

335
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:43,519
and started a band and

336
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:46,959
i recorded some songs um

337
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:54,389
so uh so then uh

338
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:56,800
i've been teaching science and and math

339
00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:57,680
and uh

340
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,920
and getting more into uh sort of

341
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:01,279
philosophy poetry

342
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,680
um lately and uh

343
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,680
my whole life really i've been

344
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,600
fascinated by

345
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:11,040
by all the stuff i talk about in the

346
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,880
book it's it's been a lifelong

347
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:14,639
exploration whether it's

348
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:18,320
carl jung or buddhism or um

349
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:20,560
you know what we know about jesus so

350
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:22,160
sort of you know historical

351
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,000
biblical exploration um channeling

352
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:29,040
um and of course

353
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,320
paranormal phenomenon and just

354
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:34,079
trying to make sense of it all and sort

355
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:36,639
of integrate it into some

356
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:40,399
kind of notions about reality

357
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:42,880
uh that that makes sense to me i don't

358
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:44,320
know if i don't know if that made sense

359
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:45,040
i kind of

360
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,920
jumped all over the place there but

361
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:49,760
happy to clarify

362
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:52,240
yeah um i just want to do a little shout

363
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:53,839
out to mark stanley who is a

364
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,040
fantastic musician um he's in our chat

365
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,519
and uh i think he might know who you are

366
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:01,360
uh he or he just said it's kind of the

367
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,480
mirror of your life

368
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:04,800
of his life very similar very similar

369
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,680
life yeah

370
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,920
check out mark stanley online he's he's

371
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,839
really an incredible musician

372
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:11,360
and he went through a really hard time

373
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:14,399
and and uh and he's doing really well

374
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:17,760
so uh yeah but anyway uh

375
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:20,959
he says hi to everyone um so

376
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,480
uh now as far as like

377
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:27,120
the ufo topic i know that you know this

378
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:28,639
is a show about ufos

379
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,399
but you also think that

380
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:34,240
do you when you're saying that science

381
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,000
can't explain it

382
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,320
can you just kind of go into what you

383
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:41,040
what your thoughts are about that

384
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:47,110
i'm going to back up a little with the

385
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:49,279
big picture and i i will

386
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,720
hopefully answer the question so

387
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,800
one of the one of the ideas i think

388
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,160
that's out there

389
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:58,320
particularly with regard to sort of the

390
00:16:02,949 --> 00:15:59,360
scientific

391
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:02,959
um let's say lens or view

392
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:05,839
is that again again science sort of is

393
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:08,800
is clear-eyed there's no there's no bias

394
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,120
there's no there's no prejudice we we

395
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:13,040
take data as they come

396
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,560
you know and we deal with the data we

397
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:16,480
deal with the evidence

398
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:20,720
um i don't think that's true i think

399
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,000
i think that every view of reality

400
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:26,320
in in a way i don't think there is such

401
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:27,120
a thing as

402
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:30,480
reality as a as one thing because

403
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,759
as humans we we see

404
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:35,519
we have to see reality through a certain

405
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:38,320
lens we have to make certain assumptions

406
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:42,000
um you know when i see when i see some

407
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:44,240
wood stuck together in a certain way

408
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:47,120
i call that a chair i i bring the

409
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:49,040
concept of a chair to that

410
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,160
but you so say say a

411
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,480
a neanderthal or a cro-magnon person saw

412
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,720
that they don't have that concept they

413
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:58,399
they they would probably see

414
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:01,440
12 pieces of kindling um

415
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,839
they don't so they're sort of drawing

416
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,120
lines

417
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:07,280
in reality in different places right

418
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:08,559
they're drawing lines around

419
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:12,079
each little stick um

420
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,280
so and this is

421
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,360
the reason i wrote a whole book about it

422
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:19,199
is it's not it's not a simplistic

423
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:21,280
kind of concept to get across but i'm

424
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:22,720
doing my best here

425
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,160
um so we we bring

426
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,200
lenses to the world and these lenses

427
00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:31,440
or assumptions you could call them

428
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:32,880
they're not right or wrong

429
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,720
you know they're ways of interacting

430
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:36,160
with the world

431
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:39,120
so science's way of interacting with the

432
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:41,360
world is very analytical it it likes to

433
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:41,840
break

434
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:47,679
and it also likes what's predictable

435
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:50,160
science you could say and some have said

436
00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:51,760
science is really fundamentally about

437
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:53,679
making predictions you know

438
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:57,440
um here's this is an equation or a law

439
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:00,960
um but we forget that

440
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,520
that to to say something is predictable

441
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,880
or consistent

442
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,280
or follows an equation that those are

443
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:09,280
all lenses that we bring

444
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,480
to a situation um

445
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:14,720
and we tend not to see our lenses

446
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:16,000
because we're always looking through

447
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:16,640
them

448
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:19,039
it to us it's just this is reality this

449
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:20,480
is how it is

450
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:23,760
um and and

451
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:26,080
so one of the one of the big lenses i i

452
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,440
think the major lens

453
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:29,520
in the sort of western scientific view

454
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:30,480
of the world

455
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:33,280
is is what i call division vision which

456
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:35,760
which loves to divide things

457
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,799
so we see that of course in our politics

458
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:40,880
we see that right now in our politics we

459
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,880
see that with race you know ra race is

460
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:44,960
really there's no such thing as

461
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,160
pure any race we're all mixed um

462
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:50,880
quantum physics has recently shown that

463
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:52,000
every particle

464
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:53,760
in the universe is actually a wave

465
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:56,559
spread out across the whole universe

466
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:00,960
so this things really aren't as divided

467
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,840
as we

468
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,080
like to think they are i mean i'm i

469
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:05,919
don't have the same body i had

470
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:08,400
seven years ago i'm i'm constantly

471
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:10,720
exchanging particles with

472
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,799
the environment um i don't know where my

473
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:14,080
consciousness ends

474
00:19:19,270 --> 00:19:17,360
there's there's no border to we make all

475
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:19,280
these assumptions about you know here's

476
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:20,880
this thing here's this thing here's this

477
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,840
thing

478
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:24,320
but just a little bit of poking reveals

479
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,120
that

480
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:27,360
these these borders can be be very

481
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:28,960
helpful

482
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:33,600
but they're they're inadequate

483
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,000
for looking at things for instance like

484
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:39,280
a ufo um

485
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,600
one of the huge one of the huge things

486
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:43,520
that we divide in our culture is the

487
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:46,000
subjective and the objective

488
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,520
and you know there may be people

489
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:49,039
listening right now saying well

490
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,280
of course we do that because that's

491
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:53,039
they're obviously separate

492
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:57,440
um but not all cultures have actually um

493
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:59,679
seen the world that way in fact uh

494
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:01,520
animistic peoples

495
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:04,799
which who probably preceded you know all

496
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,960
religions on the planet back say before

497
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:08,640
the ancient greeks

498
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,640
did not divide the world between the

499
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:12,640
subjective experience and the objective

500
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,440
experience

501
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:15,679
um there's even some cultures today the

502
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:17,440
uh the yukakars

503
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,799
the i don't know how you pronounce it

504
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:20,960
they're in siberia

505
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:23,520
they don't have a word for nature as

506
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:24,720
opposed to

507
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,360
culture nature or us them they're just

508
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:29,280
part of it

509
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:33,120
um so i i think subjective objective is

510
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,000
a is something

511
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:37,200
that that ufos it's a distinction that

512
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:38,559
ufos and other

513
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:42,400
phenomena like this are are challenging

514
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,440
um and it shouldn't be that surprising

515
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:47,520
because quantum physics again

516
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:50,640
has shown that the observer affects the

517
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:51,280
observed

518
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,400
right we things are waves until we look

519
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,440
at them and then they become particles

520
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:59,520
so it's not even scientifically that

521
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,840
far-fetched a notion that there is this

522
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:03,600
interplay between the subjective

523
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:09,510
yeah yeah i agree and you know quantum

524
00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,320
physics is

525
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:12,880
just baffling i i look into that quite a

526
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:13,840
bit just

527
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,200
you know just watching documentaries and

528
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:19,600
things like that but it really is so

529
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:20,400
bizarre

530
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:24,080
and and it it it doesn't you know things

531
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:24,480
just

532
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:27,360
seem like they can't be real for

533
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,320
instance

534
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,480
you know if you take all the space out

535
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:32,000
of an atom for one thing

536
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:35,039
uh i mean uh how small

537
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,559
a person would be uh yeah you know like

538
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:40,720
on the fit on the tip of a pin

539
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:42,880
you know that that type of thing and

540
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:45,919
it's crazy and then that also goes

541
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:48,960
um with black holes and how they are

542
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,960
they can just compact all the way down

543
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:52,240
into

544
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:55,039
you know almost to nothing which is just

545
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:55,760
amazing

546
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:57,440
you know the whole thing there's so many

547
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:58,799
concepts we can't

548
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:01,679
really understand when it comes to

549
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,120
what's around us

550
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,679
and there's there's a noted uh ufo

551
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:06,960
researcher

552
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,400
jacques valet i don't know if you've

553
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:10,159
heard of him i don't know how much

554
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:11,280
you've looked into

555
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,360
you know you have um and he

556
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:18,240
you know hit his uh one of the things

557
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:19,520
that he says is

558
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:22,640
you know maybe what ufos are and what

559
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:23,520
we're seeing

560
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:26,000
is we have no idea to even how to

561
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:27,679
describe what it is or something like

562
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:28,480
that

563
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,080
it's really you know kind of almost

564
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:32,159
along those lines

565
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:35,360
right pretty interesting yes

566
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,919
it it it i think it really challenges

567
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:41,760
the way we look at the world in very

568
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:42,880
fundamental ways

569
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,840
it's not it's it's not a it's not a

570
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:47,520
phenomenon that we can make sense of

571
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:48,320
without

572
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,240
basic assumptions

573
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:54,159
underneath those and one of those

574
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:55,600
assumptions you know being the

575
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:56,880
subjective

576
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:00,559
objective um

577
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,799
uh another great book uh i want to give

578
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:03,679
a shout out

579
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:06,720
to is um uh by a guy named patrick

580
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:07,520
harper

581
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:10,320
he's an english writer he has a book

582
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:11,120
called

583
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:14,640
demonic reality which is a really great

584
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:15,679
read

585
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,720
that that kind of puts these ufo type

586
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:20,240
phenomena

587
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:23,280
into a historical perspective

588
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,720
so i i recommend that book of course

589
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,799
you should get mine first but then then

590
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,799
his

591
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,640
you have to get yours first because it

592
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:34,480
you know that

593
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:36,240
it just makes sense that way right

594
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:39,200
that's right yeah

595
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:41,840
interesting yeah the historical aspect

596
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:42,240
of

597
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:48,400
as well you know i mean

598
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,919
some of the cave paintings are pretty

599
00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:51,440
weird you know and

600
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,039
i've i've never really been all that

601
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,440
into like the ancient alien type thing

602
00:23:59,269 --> 00:23:57,360
but there are there are some things that

603
00:24:02,230 --> 00:23:59,279
really are puzzling

604
00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:02,240
and you know just just the fact that say

605
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,520
if we are being

606
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:05,440
let's just throw it out there that we

607
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:07,039
maybe we are being visited by

608
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,640
extraterrestrial

609
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,400
well it doesn't have to be just in our

610
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,720
contemporary time i mean

611
00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:15,840
if uh you know intelligence has existed

612
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:16,159
for

613
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:18,640
billions of years or whatever out there

614
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,559
um you know we could have been

615
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:21,919
visited from the very beginning it

616
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:24,480
doesn't really matter you know right

617
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:28,000
right so and and really basically if you

618
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:28,480
think about

619
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,320
the time where humans have been on this

620
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:32,640
earth is very short time

621
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:35,200
you know it's a very uh when you compare

622
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,880
it to the length of the earth has been

623
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:37,919
here it's

624
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,840
way down to uh not you know

625
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,679
there's a guy named mark d antonio he's

626
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:45,600
a friend and he does this

627
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:49,039
exhibition at a conference will take

628
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:51,279
a roll of toilet paper something like

629
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:53,279
300 feet i can't remember exactly what

630
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,159
it is

631
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,080
and he goes around the toilet paper and

632
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:58,080
he says okay

633
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,760
he has people holding it up in a room

634
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:01,200
it's really funny it's all it's all

635
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,480
taped together so the toilet paper

636
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:03,840
doesn't fall apart

637
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,080
but he'll walk around and he'll say okay

638
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,559
this is where first life began

639
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,480
and what the toilet paper represents is

640
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,720
the earth the lifetime of the earth

641
00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:14,559
and then he says okay this is where the

642
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:15,919
first uh

643
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:18,320
um fish walked out of the sea or

644
00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:19,279
whatever it is

645
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:21,440
and then he goes uh this is where the

646
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:23,200
dinosaurs were

647
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:25,120
and then when it comes to humans we're

648
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:26,559
right at the very end

649
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,159
of that roll of toilet paper a very

650
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:30,080
little tiny tiny bit

651
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:31,760
so that's all we've been here for a very

652
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:33,760
short time when it when it's in

653
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,960
the nation and i love that illustration

654
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:39,039
because it's so hard to wrap your brain

655
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,240
around

656
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:43,039
time or anything anything i've i've

657
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,520
heard it

658
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:45,360
well said that it's hard for the average

659
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:48,000
person to understand anything over the

660
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,240
figure of ten thousand

661
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,159
you know anything over that it's hard to

662
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:54,000
wrap your brain around how how many

663
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:57,520
people that is how many anything that is

664
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:01,600
yeah yeah there's there's a lot

665
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:04,559
that's hard to wrap your brain around uh

666
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:05,840
you know going back to what you were

667
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:06,720
saying about

668
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:09,120
um quantum physics and the sort of the

669
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,600
weird or just modern physics in general

670
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,640
and the weirdness that's there um

671
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,080
that's kind of another interesting

672
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:18,400
paradox to me is that

673
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:21,200
so you've got these of course weird

674
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:22,320
phenomenon like

675
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:26,159
ufos or various other paranormal events

676
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:29,520
but which which many scientists

677
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:31,840
uh pooh-pooh or don't don't even kind of

678
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:33,039
look into

679
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:34,480
not that they need to you know they've

680
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:37,200
got their own lives and stuff to do

681
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,039
um and yet they can talk with straight

682
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:43,120
faces about you know the stuff that you

683
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:44,480
mentioned where you know

684
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:47,679
there's there's the whole universe they

685
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,080
think

686
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,640
was condensed to smaller than a speck of

687
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,400
sand at the big bang i mean that's

688
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,640
right that's crazier than anything i've

689
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:56,640
heard anywhere

690
00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:00,000
right and the idea that every electron

691
00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:01,760
in the universe

692
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:04,000
is a is a wave spread out across the

693
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:05,600
universe

694
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:08,720
uh i mean this is the most absurd thing

695
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:11,520
i've ever heard from anyone

696
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:13,840
and so there are certain types of this

697
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:15,039
absurdity

698
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:17,600
that the general public doesn't i don't

699
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,080
think

700
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:20,640
mostly even knows about that scientists

701
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:21,279
accept

702
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:24,720
because well it's it's a certain type of

703
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,000
absurdity right i've asked i had uh

704
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:31,600
avi loeb on one of the he's a harvard

705
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:34,480
astronomer um he's probably the last one

706
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:35,919
i asked this question to

707
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:37,840
and i think i even mentioned this last

708
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:40,320
week so pardon me for repeating myself

709
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:42,240
but i've asked every astronomer that's

710
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:44,240
been on this show

711
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:47,039
could the big bang be wrong that's the

712
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,640
question i posed to them

713
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:51,120
and so far every single one of them says

714
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:52,880
about the same thing well we have so

715
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,600
much

716
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:56,080
evidence of it you know all the evidence

717
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:56,799
points to

718
00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:58,480
that it really that's how it happened

719
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:00,320
and then the next question i asked them

720
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:03,520
well what was before then you know what

721
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:06,799
what was there before then and

722
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:09,279
and you usually hear the thing about

723
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:11,120
well that's where time began or whatever

724
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:12,000
but

725
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:14,399
right i don't know such a such a hard

726
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:15,279
concept

727
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:17,679
but um i really like the thing you said

728
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:18,480
i'd like to touch

729
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:19,840
i'd like for you to touch on a little

730
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:22,880
bit more and that is the filter

731
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:24,960
the filter that we all look through it's

732
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:25,919
it's kind of like

733
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:29,279
the bias and i think you know i think

734
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,559
science has a bias against the ufos

735
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,399
you know it's pretty obvious it's still

736
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:35,840
the ridicule factor and

737
00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:38,399
and and i think you know right on the

738
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:40,640
right at the very start

739
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:44,080
um it's hard to get anyone to fund any

740
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,279
research

741
00:28:49,029 --> 00:28:47,120
or everything or anything like that

742
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,039
because of the

743
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,600
you know the looney tunes factor in this

744
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:52,880
whole thing

745
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:56,640
right yeah um

746
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:59,039
so for sure one of the filters is just

747
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,320
straight up ridicule

748
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:02,480
you know straight up you you don't want

749
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,360
to be that

750
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,919
scientist walking down the hall of your

751
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,200
physics department

752
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:10,399
that's that's interested in ufos i mean

753
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:10,960
you get

754
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:14,720
i you know about john mack oh yeah

755
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:17,120
yeah so i don't know that much about him

756
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:18,640
but i heard that

757
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:21,279
you know he just for showing an interest

758
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:21,919
in the

759
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,039
um you know he went down there and i

760
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:28,720
think he wrote a book about it

761
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:31,919
hit harvard you know investigated him

762
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:32,159
and

763
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:35,840
questioned his ability to be a professor

764
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:40,000
right know more about than i do but um

765
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:42,880
you know uh sociologist james mclennan

766
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:43,520
you have

767
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:46,720
you know james mclennan i i can't think

768
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,080
of who that is but

769
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,559
go ahead okay um he wrote a book called

770
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:51,600
wondrous events

771
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,840
he was a sociologist and uh interested

772
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:55,440
in this area and

773
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,640
um you know sent out some questionnaires

774
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,559
to some scientists and

775
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:02,799
some wrote back just urging that he'd be

776
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:04,080
kicked out of grad school

777
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:07,200
just for just for taking a survey about

778
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:08,880
experiences in this you know our

779
00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:11,279
attitudes in this area

780
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:15,039
so um scientists are not you know any

781
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:17,279
more emotionally mature than anyone else

782
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:20,080
um they they've got these predic you

783
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:21,360
know it's almost like a middle school

784
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:22,480
playground you know

785
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,230
so there's that filter just pure social

786
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:32,640
social um stigma or whatever you want to

787
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:33,279
call it

788
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,480
um and then there's the filter that i

789
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:38,640
that i mentioned before which is about

790
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:41,679
consistency and predictability so

791
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:44,399
what's consistent for a scientist what's

792
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,240
consistent is what's real

793
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:48,799
right it's all about can we repeat this

794
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:57,430
and we all know that ufos and all these

795
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:00,480
phenomena are not consistent

796
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,640
we can't we can't predict them so

797
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:06,640
so to a scientist by definition that's

798
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:08,240
sort of not real it's kind of like a

799
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:09,200
dream you know you

800
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,880
you your dreams aren't real um

801
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:14,640
ufos aren't real because they're not

802
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:16,080
consistent we

803
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,519
we can't come up with a law or an

804
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,360
equation

805
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:21,120
but you can't you can't just say well

806
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,279
reality is whatever is consistent

807
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,360
we you know i call it reality is what

808
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:27,440
can what's consistent

809
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:32,640
um reality may not be consistent

810
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:35,919
um i don't i don't think that

811
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:38,640
it's an impossible dream that scientists

812
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:40,480
could make progress

813
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:43,679
um in in this but i don't think they're

814
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:44,159
really

815
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:48,720
close to being able to right now i think

816
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:51,679
i think their energies are better spent

817
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,399
on

818
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:53,760
things that will end up being a little

819
00:32:01,509 --> 00:31:57,039
more practical um

820
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:01,519
because it's it's a big confusing

821
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:04,880
and um it's just a big

822
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:07,919
confusing topic it's like a jungle that

823
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,310
so i don't know if that answered your

824
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:16,399
question

825
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:19,919
yeah but but also um

826
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:22,720
the filter is and i think you know we

827
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:23,600
brought this up

828
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:26,640
off air or or i did i i mentioned

829
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:29,440
to you that i thought that as long as

830
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:32,559
humans have been around

831
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:36,080
the contemporary times that they're in

832
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,559
they think they know everything you know

833
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:39,679
whether it was

834
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:41,760
the romans or you know and they were a

835
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:43,519
lot smarter than

836
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:45,039
you know we give them credit for it but

837
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:46,880
whatever in that era

838
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:49,360
but we always think we know everything

839
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:50,640
there is to know

840
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,200
it's the most bizarre thing so i don't i

841
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,440
don't really know

842
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,679
you know what what will ever change when

843
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:59,120
it when it comes to that and you know a

844
00:33:03,909 --> 00:32:59,840
lot of that is

845
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:03,919
ego based uh a lot of it is fear-based

846
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:06,880
because i should know you know yes that

847
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:08,880
type of thing

848
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:11,600
i i agree with you completely it it

849
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:12,880
blows my mind

850
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:15,919
that that a scientist today can

851
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:19,120
can talk with any sort of you know

852
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,760
idea of authority about about ultimate

853
00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:23,120
reality or god based

854
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:26,559
based exactly on what you're saying um

855
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:29,679
you know at the end of the 1800s

856
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,320
right before einstein the sort of

857
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:34,159
general scientific consensus was

858
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:35,519
you know we have the world pretty well

859
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:38,000
figured out um you know we've got

860
00:33:41,669 --> 00:33:40,000
we've got newton's laws we've got we've

861
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:41,679
got electricity

862
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:43,360
everything's kind of this machine and we

863
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:45,600
can explain all the motion and

864
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,640
and then you know within 10 years you

865
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:50,320
have einstein and the birth of quantum

866
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,919
physics and the whole thing was just

867
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:54,000
blown wide open

868
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:56,799
and then so we know that you can have

869
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:58,720
these explosions of utter

870
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:02,000
bizarreness blowing things open and yet

871
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:04,320
some people are sort of clinging to this

872
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,200
idea that

873
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,200
okay yeah but now we know now we're

874
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:09,599
pretty close to knowing everything

875
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,639
yeah so yeah i'm not buying it

876
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:14,879
i'm not either and that's also another

877
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:17,440
another thing that comes up a lot when

878
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:20,480
um the skeptics of the ufo or the x

879
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:23,440
being uh the possibility of us being

880
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:25,200
visited by extraterrestrial is

881
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:26,560
impossible because

882
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:29,119
they're too far away well yes they're

883
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:30,720
that the distances are just

884
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:33,839
mind-blowing for sure right but but i

885
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,280
also think that

886
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,679
well an intelligence has been around for

887
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:39,280
a very long time

888
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,720
then they discovered something in

889
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,480
physics that we're not aware of

890
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:45,280
you know that's that's basically uh i

891
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:47,040
mean that's a possibility

892
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:50,320
there's some way to travel that we just

893
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,520
have not

894
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:53,200
thought of yet and maybe has nothing to

895
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:55,599
do with the speed of light and nothing

896
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:56,639
to do with any of that

897
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:00,640
maybe it's something else totally right

898
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:03,119
you know maybe we'll figure it out maybe

899
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:05,359
we won't

900
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:08,640
yeah someday we we love to know things

901
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:09,599
we

902
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:14,320
of being able to say

903
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,079
make grand statements and know things um

904
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,160
and in fact that's sort of another

905
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,480
difference between our culture and some

906
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:24,960
some of the animistic cultures you read

907
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:26,000
about where

908
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:35,190
she mentioned this concept called

909
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,119
percept ambiguity which

910
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:39,920
basically it's just sort of um there's a

911
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:42,079
greater comfort with mystery a greater

912
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:43,280
comfort with

913
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,079
you know okay this is going on we don't

914
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:48,000
have to explain it or

915
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:51,599
you know um but uh

916
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:54,240
i think we could benefit a lot by that

917
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:54,640
uh

918
00:36:02,230 --> 00:35:59,119
by being able to say i don't know

919
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:02,240
yeah i mean uh you know

920
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:05,040
the questions asking the right question

921
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:05,520
that

922
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:09,200
topic you

923
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,800
you know i mean that that's kind of like

924
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,320
one of the most difficult things to

925
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:14,400
figure out isn't it wouldn't you say

926
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:17,599
is what to know for a question yeah

927
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:18,400
absolutely

928
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:19,920
because there are there are a million

929
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,599
questions you can ask so

930
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,520
which one you pick it's almost like

931
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:25,599
you've already decided the answer

932
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:28,320
uh in some ways it can be that way right

933
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:30,160
you you pick a question where

934
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:32,320
you know the answer is gonna lead you in

935
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,680
a certain way so

936
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:35,760
a question is like an assumption or or

937
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:37,920
you could even say it's like a lens

938
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:40,160
um it's questions are not just sort of

939
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:42,480
neutral things that you

940
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:45,200
you bring to to a situation right the

941
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:47,119
question matters yeah

942
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:50,320
yeah yeah okay well interesting so

943
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:53,520
um so you have obviously you've looked

944
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:55,280
into the ufo

945
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:58,400
subject a bit and and what are your what

946
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,839
is your thoughts overall do you think

947
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:01,520
there's really something to it are you

948
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:02,079
still

949
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:04,240
a big question mark or how do you feel

950
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:10,550
well so i i absolutely think there's

951
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:11,440
something to it

952
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:15,119
i think they're um i don't

953
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:17,680
i don't know i would say that they are

954
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:19,680
not necessarily

955
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,480
i would say they're real but not real in

956
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:23,920
the way that we're used to thinking of

957
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,320
real

958
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,880
i think they challenge even the notion

959
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:28,400
of reality

960
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,839
um so that

961
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:34,240
science science needs to look at things

962
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:35,520
that are

963
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:37,599
agreed upon by pretty much everyone on

964
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,440
the planet right we can all

965
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:41,119
we can all put our finger on this

966
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,640
computer screen

967
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:45,440
um we can all agree it's this long and

968
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,880
this wide

969
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,240
so that that's a certain realm of

970
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,800
reality it's a certain communal

971
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,800
realm of reality that there's a sort of

972
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:54,320
you could say it's an agreement or

973
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:55,599
something

974
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:57,200
but it's it's a realm that we can all

975
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:58,880
move in together

976
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,520
doesn't mean it's the only realm so i

977
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:03,599
think there are realms

978
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:05,920
that are that are more about sort of

979
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:08,079
crossing some of these borders that we

980
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:10,160
we put up between the subjective and the

981
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:11,599
objective

982
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:14,800
what i can from what i can tell uh

983
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,240
ufo phenomenon are are sort of a mixture

984
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:20,800
of the subjective and the objective

985
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,880
so you've got you've got um

986
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:26,480
many many situations where there's

987
00:38:29,829 --> 00:38:28,000
multiple witnesses

988
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:29,839
i'm sure you're you're more aware than i

989
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,599
am of of those

990
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,079
um so there's the multiple witness

991
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,680
there's there is a certain communal

992
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:37,119
aspect to that

993
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:39,839
uh there are there are certain um

994
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:41,440
lasting

995
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:43,680
evidence so to speak maybe it's a radar

996
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:44,960
ping or a

997
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:47,920
high radiation levels or some footprints

998
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:50,320
or imprints in the ground

999
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:51,680
there are there are physical

1000
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:53,760
manifestations and they are

1001
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:57,119
um and shared experiences

1002
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,359
but there's a sort of tendency for them

1003
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:01,280
for the evidence to

1004
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:04,480
not quite be solid or you know for

1005
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:05,680
obviously for things to kind of

1006
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:06,480
disappear

1007
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:08,480
and how many times have ufos just kind

1008
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:11,760
of shot off or disappeared

1009
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,960
um you know which is not

1010
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:16,720
which is not the way sort of normal

1011
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,680
objective things operate

1012
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:21,680
then you've got then you've got the

1013
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:23,040
people who

1014
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,960
there's a sort of a dreamlike quality to

1015
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:26,800
some of the um

1016
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,920
abduction reports uh people

1017
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:32,800
people report sort of you know there are

1018
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:35,119
these time lapses there's this

1019
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:38,000
it's just sort of dream like you know

1020
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:38,640
and then

1021
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,640
there's certain evidence again that that

1022
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,000
it did happen maybe they feel

1023
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:44,880
ill or they wind up in some remote spot

1024
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:46,880
but it can never quite be pinned down

1025
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,800
right so there's they just don't seem

1026
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:51,760
quite objective

1027
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:53,280
but they're not they're definitely not

1028
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,040
just subjective

1029
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,040
and i and this is a realm that our

1030
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:59,280
culture just just does not have

1031
00:40:02,870 --> 00:40:01,680
the vocabulary for or the mindset to

1032
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:02,880
sort of

1033
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:06,000
make sense of that realm but it's a

1034
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:16,790
oh you're muted me yes i muted for a

1035
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:17,359
second

1036
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:19,119
um i have to take care of something but

1037
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,040
first of all i just wanted to uh

1038
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,079
the wind is picking up here and uh for

1039
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:26,160
those of you that can see this this is

1040
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:27,200
my setup

1041
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:28,880
and you'll see that umbrella for a sun

1042
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:31,440
filter and uh that's starting to go wild

1043
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,839
so

1044
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:34,079
i gotta have bill i gotta take that down

1045
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:35,920
i gotta have bill take over for me

1046
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:38,560
for a few minutes hey bill uh i'm here

1047
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:40,079
doing that i'll take i'll take myself

1048
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,680
out until i get that fixed and i'll be

1049
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,160
okay it's interesting that you were just

1050
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:45,839
touching on that chris because

1051
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:48,560
i was thinking there are a lot of people

1052
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:49,200
that

1053
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:51,040
make a connection between the

1054
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:52,880
metaphysical

1055
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:55,839
um proponent of this and you mentioned

1056
00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:56,720
dreams

1057
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,160
lucid dreaming uh meditation

1058
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:02,480
um connection through some type of a

1059
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:03,200
medical

1060
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:06,480
i mean a metaphysical connection with

1061
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,960
some type of spiritual guide or divine

1062
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:10,880
being

1063
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:14,480
is there any basis of science

1064
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,920
because a lot of people try to you know

1065
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,240
put credibility to that and

1066
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:20,240
is there anything that we can use as

1067
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:22,640
from a scientific perspective to

1068
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:25,920
pursue that kind of um

1069
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:30,319
theory i to my mind no i don't

1070
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,240
i don't see science right now being

1071
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:34,640
helpful with that i think science

1072
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:36,720
right now just doesn't want to look at

1073
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:37,839
that realm

1074
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,920
is not it's not really equipped to look

1075
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:41,040
at that realm again i

1076
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:44,640
i don't i don't say science is

1077
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,720
you know i'm repeating myself but i

1078
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:48,480
don't say science is wrong or bad or

1079
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,839
anything like that i just

1080
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:51,680
i just say that science is equipped to

1081
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,280
do certain things

1082
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,680
um and they i don't think they're

1083
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,760
equipped to investigate what you're

1084
00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:59,920
what you're talking about but i mean

1085
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:01,119
it's also based on

1086
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:04,240
frequency vibration um there's the

1087
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:07,040
quantum physics perspective on this

1088
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:11,200
um i just find yeah

1089
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:14,240
i see yeah i i do think i do think

1090
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:16,000
you know speaking very generally

1091
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:18,160
vibration is an important word

1092
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:21,599
in all this um sort of

1093
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:23,680
i think there's a lot of um sort of an

1094
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:25,040
analogy with

1095
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:27,599
being on certain frequencies so you know

1096
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,880
an antenna

1097
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:30,240
antenna can be tuned to a certain

1098
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:32,560
frequency and it it

1099
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:34,079
there can be another frequency going

1100
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:36,319
right by it it's not going to notice it

1101
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:38,000
um that doesn't mean this that doesn't

1102
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:40,319
mean this radiation is not real right

1103
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,160
so if we think of our mind as an antenna

1104
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:46,079
then there's you can think of sort of

1105
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:48,000
this idea like well why don't i

1106
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,480
what if i tune my mind right here oh

1107
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:52,319
look i can pick it up now

1108
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:55,839
um and that i mean you know

1109
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,200
there's a huge tradition largely in

1110
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:01,280
india a spiritual tradition

1111
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:04,000
of yogis for instance just doing amazing

1112
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:05,520
things with all sorts of

1113
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:08,319
eyewitnesses which you know remind me of

1114
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,839
that sort of like

1115
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,839
in india there's a tradition of training

1116
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:12,960
your mind

1117
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,599
to to do things that we in the west

1118
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:17,599
would just think are absurd

1119
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:19,920
but in india it's just a tradition when

1120
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:21,680
it's possible and it's done

1121
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:24,480
all the time and i do think the sort of

1122
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,160
frequency vibration thing is a good

1123
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:27,839
analogy for that

1124
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:30,560
is that also about accessing uh part of

1125
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:31,440
the brain

1126
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:34,319
i mean um we all a lot of people bring

1127
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,079
up the the numbers that how much of the

1128
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:38,000
brain that we actually use

1129
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:41,359
is it where people can actually access

1130
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:44,720
more of their brain power so to speak

1131
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:49,119
um and and and making this connection

1132
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:51,040
do you know what i mean it's it's like

1133
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:52,560
some people have more perception than

1134
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:53,599
others

1135
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:57,200
to develop

1136
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:00,880
um the use of their brains

1137
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,280
maybe more than uh you know others it's

1138
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:05,440
i don't know if there's any real science

1139
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:07,440
um and again we're talking the science

1140
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:08,480
connection

1141
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:12,160
um with this do you see that as a

1142
00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:14,640
possibility

1143
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:17,440
yeah i think so i think i think it's

1144
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:18,000
sort of

1145
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:20,400
these types of abilities are are

1146
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:22,000
actually like any other you know you can

1147
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:23,440
be born

1148
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,599
with a you know predilection for being a

1149
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:26,960
good at basketball or good

1150
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,960
at playing the cello i think you can be

1151
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:30,319
born with certain

1152
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,960
spiritual capacities or certain sort of

1153
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:34,480
talents if you will

1154
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:36,079
that are like any other talent that can

1155
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:37,680
be developed

1156
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:41,760
um in fact it's funny the cia uh

1157
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:44,400
said basically that exactly that in a

1158
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,440
report

1159
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:47,599
um it's it's footnoted in my book it's

1160
00:44:51,349 --> 00:44:49,520
online uh that

1161
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:51,359
remote viewing they've tested remote

1162
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,640
viewing you know for

1163
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:55,760
for um defense purposes

1164
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:57,920
and they concluded that it's it's like

1165
00:45:02,069 --> 00:44:58,960
any other skill

1166
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,079
it it is real it it works and certain

1167
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:04,000
people are better at it than others but

1168
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,359
everyone can develop it

1169
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:07,760
too at least to a certain extent the

1170
00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:09,119
reason the reason i was bringing this up

1171
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:10,000
to you i was

1172
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:11,440
all getting to a point before martin

1173
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:13,359
gets back with us they're the people

1174
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:13,839
that have

1175
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:17,280
abduct the experiences um they seem to

1176
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:20,000
oh there's a quite a bit of those that

1177
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:21,520
say they now have

1178
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:24,480
some type of an ability psychic ability

1179
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:25,920
or a connection

1180
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:29,920
with whatever the entity was so

1181
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:31,920
you know what i mean was something

1182
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,280
triggered in their mind was something

1183
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:34,960
implanted in their mind

1184
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:37,599
was something altered in their brain i

1185
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:39,280
mean

1186
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:41,680
that's to me is the question that's why

1187
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,280
it could be cross-connected

1188
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:45,520
in that way that's why i was trying to

1189
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:46,720
try out a little bit

1190
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:48,160
because all the experiences talk about

1191
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:49,920
that all the time but they have an

1192
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,720
experience

1193
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,319
of having a raised awareness

1194
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:54,319
consciousness ability

1195
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:57,520
psyche uh you know telekinesis

1196
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,880
it goes on um chris that's why i was

1197
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:02,800
wondering what your take on was the

1198
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:04,880
makeup of the brain and the scientific

1199
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:07,760
data or analysis that has been made with

1200
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:08,319
that

1201
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:13,440
have a great rest of the show martin and

1202
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:14,960
chris yeah

1203
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,359
you can you ask great questions you can

1204
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:19,440
hang out if you'd like to or do you have

1205
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,680
to go well i will go because we're going

1206
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:23,359
to take phone calls at some point in

1207
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:24,560
this hour and that's when it gets a

1208
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,520
little busy

1209
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:27,200
well we get on the top of the hour we're

1210
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:28,400
going to be taking a break but i'm

1211
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:29,839
always here if you need me

1212
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,910
all right thank you yeah thank you so i

1213
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:39,040
you know of course i didn't catch

1214
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,800
exactly what you want you were talking

1215
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:41,599
about so

1216
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,000
um uh the umbrella's down we won't have

1217
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,240
a mary poppins thing happen here

1218
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:48,640
and uh so we're all good here but still

1219
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,319
um

1220
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:52,160
i i heard you you talk a little bit

1221
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,839
about was it the consciousness

1222
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:56,400
aspect that people bring up i heard he

1223
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:58,880
talked about the abilities which is

1224
00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:01,280
um have you ever heard about those

1225
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,800
situations because there's been quite a

1226
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:04,560
few people claiming they've had these

1227
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,160
new abilities like bill was talking

1228
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:08,400
about

1229
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,680
um so so you're asking me have i heard

1230
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:14,160
of that happening after an encounter say

1231
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,760
yeah

1232
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:17,520
you know i i think now that now that you

1233
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:19,520
both bring it up i think i have

1234
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:22,319
um it doesn't surprise me in the least

1235
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:23,440
because

1236
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:25,200
um you know i know that i know that

1237
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:26,720
there are people

1238
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:30,160
legitimate people that have certain um

1239
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:32,319
capacities you know i think there are

1240
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:33,760
there are perfectly legitimate

1241
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:38,000
um channelers psychics um

1242
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:39,839
and i was i was talking to bill indian

1243
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:41,040
yogis

1244
00:47:47,349 --> 00:47:45,040
all of whom have you know learned to

1245
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,359
learn to do something with their human

1246
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:49,680
capacity that that we in the west

1247
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,599
would would just say is ridiculous or

1248
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,880
impossible

1249
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:54,960
um and i was i was mentioning also to

1250
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:57,200
bill that in fact the cia

1251
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:01,520
uh basically said remote viewing works

1252
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:04,319
um and can be you know trained and

1253
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:05,440
developed and

1254
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:07,440
and it should be a part of the the dod

1255
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,880
intelligence gathering

1256
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:11,280
community this was i think this was back

1257
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:13,440
in 2004 they declassified that

1258
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:14,640
i don't know what they're doing with it

1259
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:16,160
now if anything or if it's proven

1260
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:17,359
helpful

1261
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:20,640
um but they according to the cia

1262
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,440
um who unlike academia you know will

1263
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,119
explore some of these things

1264
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,920
uh remote viewing is is a skill like any

1265
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:29,200
other

1266
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:32,800
um in fact i don't know are you aware

1267
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,680
the book uh

1268
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,520
travels by michael crichton you guys

1269
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,440
talk about that at all

1270
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:39,760
no um i like the arthur though but no

1271
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:40,480
i'm not

1272
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:45,280
particular book

1273
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:46,800
it's really it's a great book you'd

1274
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:48,480
enjoy it it's called travels it's

1275
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:51,680
it's non-fiction um and

1276
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:53,200
michael crichton was a pretty free

1277
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,720
thinker and uh

1278
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,880
he he was also a harvard man and he

1279
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:57,920
actually went to

1280
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,960
harvard med school but he stopped he

1281
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,000
didn't want to become a doctor

1282
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:04,880
because he sort of didn't like the um

1283
00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:05,680
kind of cold

1284
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:08,720
attitude in western medicine but anyway

1285
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:10,240
he he had a lot of interesting

1286
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:11,119
experiences

1287
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:13,760
in the sort of paranormal and his

1288
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:16,079
conclusion was that

1289
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:19,200
once you sort of get used to them

1290
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:21,760
they're they sort of become mundane like

1291
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:22,720
they're sort of

1292
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:24,160
they're like they're kind of like

1293
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,599
anything else what like once you learn

1294
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:27,760
to ride a bike it's no big deal

1295
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:31,040
um and i think that there are these

1296
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:32,240
capacities

1297
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:36,400
western culture just

1298
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:39,839
either ridicules or ignores um

1299
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:41,119
and so they don't get developed they

1300
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:43,359
don't get talked about there's no

1301
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:45,520
sort of tradition for passing down how

1302
00:49:49,589 --> 00:49:46,800
to do it

1303
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:49,599
and you just get people sort of hit and

1304
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:50,000
miss

1305
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:51,359
kind of finding out how to do it on

1306
00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:53,599
their own then they get labeled uh

1307
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:56,319
quack maybe and then of course you do

1308
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:57,599
have scam artists

1309
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,680
i mean that's not to say there are

1310
00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:01,200
psychics out there that are just you

1311
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,000
know

1312
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:04,400
completely duping people uh but that

1313
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:07,119
doesn't mean every all of them are

1314
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:09,599
yeah that's right there's uh there's

1315
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:10,559
this great

1316
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:13,119
um guy that was on the show a few times

1317
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:15,040
kevin ganut he's a scientist

1318
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:18,079
and a professor and he has an interest

1319
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:19,760
in the ufo topic

1320
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:22,160
and he recalls this time where he would

1321
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:24,240
go to these conferences

1322
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:26,000
and there was one guy there that

1323
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:27,359
everyone was kind of

1324
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:30,079
silently laughing at saying you know the

1325
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:31,040
guy's a nut

1326
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:34,400
because he believes in this um

1327
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:37,920
earthquake lights you know that was the

1328
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:41,280
there's a phenomenon that he was talking

1329
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:42,720
about and studying about it

1330
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:45,760
and making you know some writing papers

1331
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:48,000
or whatever it was he was doing about it

1332
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,760
and then um like again like i said

1333
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:53,440
everyone was calling him a quack behind

1334
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,520
his back ends up he was right

1335
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:56,960
you know there was really something to

1336
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:59,040
it and so that's

1337
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,680
um kevin gnuth said that's when i

1338
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,800
realized that

1339
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:04,240
you know if there's something to this

1340
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,160
ufo thing i don't

1341
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,880
care if i'm ridiculed i want to look i

1342
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:10,800
want to be on the ground floor

1343
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:12,800
when this thing is when we discover this

1344
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:13,920
thing and that's why he's

1345
00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:15,520
he's involved in it today which is

1346
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:19,990
that that reminded me of a quote i was

1347
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:21,440
just looking for in my book

1348
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,839
i won't try to find the exact quote but

1349
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,200
it's by a spanish

1350
00:51:28,470 --> 00:51:27,599
writer philosopher miguel de una muno

1351
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:28,480
who said

1352
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,520
the greatest the greatest height of

1353
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:33,119
heroism to which

1354
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:34,960
an individual can attain is to know how

1355
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:42,870
um you know that makes sense given that

1356
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:44,880
on lists of things people fear the most

1357
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:46,640
usually speaking in public is above

1358
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:50,079
death yeah yeah

1359
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,599
that's right yeah uh so i think he's on

1360
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:55,280
to something there that this

1361
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:58,240
this not wanting to be ridiculed is a

1362
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:00,400
big deal and that that has a big

1363
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:04,000
effect on how much this whole topic kind

1364
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,119
of sees the light of day in our culture

1365
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:09,520
that's right yes i have a very close

1366
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:10,960
family member

1367
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:13,760
that had such a fear of speaking

1368
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:15,040
publicly

1369
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,880
that he decided he was going to push

1370
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:18,559
himself into improv and now

1371
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:22,000
he's he's like he won this award

1372
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:24,000
in his troop or whatever as being

1373
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:25,920
getting the most laughs of anyone

1374
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:28,800
else saying and he loves what he's doing

1375
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:29,119
he's

1376
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:32,480
in boston

1377
00:52:38,069 --> 00:52:35,839
um but anyway um so it's it's it's like

1378
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:38,079
i understand i understand the fact of

1379
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,280
the ridicule thing

1380
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:41,119
and personally at this point in my life

1381
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:42,480
i really don't care

1382
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:44,160
um right you know i i have a lot of

1383
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:46,400
trolls here on youtube knock yourself

1384
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:48,960
out just have a blast

1385
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:51,119
i really don't care what what you say

1386
00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:53,040
and uh

1387
00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:55,359
um you know you just have to be happy

1388
00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:56,319
with what you're doing

1389
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:58,960
personally right and and i love doing

1390
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,720
the show and i'm happy with how it's

1391
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:02,079
going and

1392
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:03,200
if you don't like it if you don't have

1393
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:05,280
to watch that's all there is to it

1394
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:09,200
take that trolls well i love your open

1395
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:10,720
mind

1396
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:12,480
yeah well it's uh it's really

1397
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,000
interesting and we um i

1398
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:16,400
think we're about we're just a minute

1399
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:17,839
away from break but i think

1400
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:20,640
i think i'm going to go in early um i'm

1401
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,880
going to just let bill know

1402
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:24,720
uh to the break we're going to go into

1403
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:27,040
the break right now and we'll be back

1404
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:29,839
in about four minutes so for those of

1405
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:30,240
you

1406
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:33,119
over at kgra radio stay tuned we'll be

1407
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:33,680
back

1408
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:36,559
uh right after these messages and for

1409
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:38,400
you here on youtube facebook and all the

1410
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:38,880
others

1411
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:41,040
we have a little a fun clip for you

1412
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:44,240
orson welles this was back in 1975

1413
00:53:49,109 --> 00:53:47,200
and it's from the us national archives

1414
00:53:54,829 --> 00:53:49,119
which is a site where we can post videos

1415
00:53:54,839 --> 00:54:02,590
go

1416
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:08,829
[Music]

1417
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:31,990
before the cylinder fell there was a

1418
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:34,000
general persuasion

1419
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:37,520
that through all the deep of space

1420
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:40,559
no life existed

1421
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:43,839
beyond the petty surface of our own

1422
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,710
we know now

1423
00:55:01,910 --> 00:55:00,870
that in the early years of the 20th

1424
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:01,920
century

1425
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:06,559
this world was being watched closely

1426
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:17,270
across an immense ethereal gulf

1427
00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:20,559
minds that are to our minds as our minds

1428
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:24,160
are to the beasts in the jungle

1429
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:28,160
intellects vast

1430
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:33,359
cool and unsympathetic

1431
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,470
and surely

1432
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:49,349
drew their plans against us

1433
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:52,720
hello i'm morrison wells

1434
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:55,119
and i've been quoting from another wells

1435
00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:56,480
no relation

1436
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:59,119
h.g wells the distinguished novelist

1437
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:00,079
historian

1438
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,359
prophet it was also the great master of

1439
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,280
science fiction

1440
00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:07,920
he wrote the war of the worlds on which

1441
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:09,920
was based a certain

1442
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:12,720
notorious radio broadcast which as some

1443
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:14,400
of you may remember

1444
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:16,720
said many thousands of our listeners

1445
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,640
panicking into the streets all over the

1446
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:19,920
country

1447
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:22,880
hg denounced me for doing it but later

1448
00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:24,160
when he realized that

1449
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:26,240
our broadcast like his story was not

1450
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:27,359
intended to

1451
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,480
cause riots but just to entertain

1452
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,640
we got to be good friends and i was

1453
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:34,480
forgiven

1454
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,319
whether all those people who jammed the

1455
00:56:41,349 --> 00:56:37,760
highways and even

1456
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:41,359
took to the hills to escape the martians

1457
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:53,910
we thought that this was it listening to

1458
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:54,319
that

1459
00:57:00,549 --> 00:56:58,400
show i said we were very impressionable

1460
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,559
at that age because of buck rogers and

1461
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:02,400
flash gordon

1462
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:05,680
and uh that really made a big impression

1463
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:06,960
on us

1464
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:10,000
one fell in particular who owned a store

1465
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:11,920
took the money from his cash register

1466
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,680
and loaded his car up with

1467
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:15,920
food and took off for the mountains and

1468
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:18,400
left his wife and children at home

1469
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:21,599
new york city was just demolished

1470
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:24,640
and they were coming closer

1471
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:28,079
all of new north jersey is an inferno

1472
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:38,829
i conceive can conceive of no

1473
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:42,630
whoa that really ended fast

1474
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:44,079
all right bill's going to bring us in in

1475
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:47,040
just a minute i wasn't prepared for that

1476
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:49,680
yeah yep stand by about 10 seconds all

1477
00:57:58,710 --> 00:57:57,190
in three two one go

1478
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:58,720
all right welcome back this is martin

1479
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:01,520
willis and i am back with the guest

1480
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:03,920
chris spark uh chris let's talk quickly

1481
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:05,040
about your book

1482
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,640
right um since we're just coming right

1483
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:08,480
back here from the break and i'm gonna

1484
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,760
try to see if i can pull up or

1485
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:11,520
hold up the title if you would to i mean

1486
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:14,400
the book itself

1487
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:17,520
right there the science spell

1488
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:19,359
and under chris spark and that's on

1489
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:21,599
amazon and that link will be in the show

1490
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:22,160
notes

1491
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:25,440
and up in the youtube text uh later on

1492
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:28,960
this evening but uh so

1493
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:32,160
let's let's talk about what you know

1494
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:33,599
what motivated you to

1495
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:44,230
um you know it might have been to uh

1496
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:52,150
i mean that might be the i don't know

1497
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:53,920
that's one answer i don't think there's

1498
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:55,680
a there's there is one answer but that

1499
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:55,920
is

1500
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:00,160
one um he

1501
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:04,400
it's not like he was sort of uh you know

1502
00:59:08,230 --> 00:59:06,880
like spouting off about how the

1503
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:08,240
spiritual world is

1504
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:11,359
is um all crap but

1505
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:13,760
he you know i i did have a different

1506
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:15,200
view of things from him

1507
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:16,799
and i think i just think i had that in

1508
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:22,230
so partly him but also you know i would

1509
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:22,960
hear

1510
00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:26,480
stuff and

1511
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:29,359
talk about things in a certain way and

1512
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:30,240
it just

1513
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:33,680
it it bugged me and i also i didn't like

1514
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:34,559
the idea

1515
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:38,240
of um maybe maybe as i talk i'm gonna

1516
00:59:44,789 --> 00:59:39,760
get closer to the

1517
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:44,799
the truth um i actually when i was a kid

1518
00:59:49,589 --> 00:59:48,400
i used to lie awake sometimes at night

1519
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,599
or

1520
00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:52,160
and just think about how i was going to

1521
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:53,440
die

1522
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,760
and my consciousness would be

1523
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:57,839
extinguished for eternity

1524
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:01,119
and i just i could not see any other way

1525
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:01,920
that

1526
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:16,160
um and so you know a certain age it

1527
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,920
occurred to me like well that's going to

1528
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:19,280
happen to me

1529
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:22,880
and it was terrifying um

1530
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,799
and i i think that i mean that's that's

1531
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:26,240
sort of

1532
01:00:30,950 --> 01:00:28,960
what a lot of intelligent educated

1533
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:30,960
scientific western

1534
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:34,000
you know people believe that sort of

1535
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:35,280
that's what the evidence

1536
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:38,240
shows and you know it's not like of

1537
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,280
course this book is

1538
01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:40,880
proof of an afterlife or anything like

1539
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:42,480
that but

1540
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,880
i just wanted to i also wanted to write

1541
01:00:48,549 --> 01:00:46,319
a book to sort of

1542
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:48,559
let's let someone continue to be

1543
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,000
intelligent

1544
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:53,040
but see that there is so

1545
01:00:59,190 --> 01:00:56,160
much in the way of possibility and that

1546
01:01:01,589 --> 01:00:59,200
being intelligent believing in science

1547
01:01:02,309 --> 01:01:01,599
does not mean that there are not other

1548
01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:02,319
worlds

1549
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:05,200
and um it's not in conflict with

1550
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:06,319
spirituality

1551
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:09,280
so i think that's probably the big thing

1552
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:09,680
so

1553
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:13,280
tell me your father read the book

1554
01:01:20,549 --> 01:01:18,630
i don't like to force things on people

1555
01:01:23,750 --> 01:01:20,559
when they don't want to do it so

1556
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:23,760
yeah yeah and what did did he give you

1557
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:28,950
he said he was going to and then and

1558
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:30,000
then it just kind of

1559
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:32,640
slipped by and other things became more

1560
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:33,200
important

1561
01:01:36,309 --> 01:01:34,960
i have a wonderful i have a wonderful

1562
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:36,319
connection with him

1563
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:39,680
um and it just

1564
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:41,520
no longer feels like something that has

1565
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:42,799
to be sort of

1566
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:46,160
on the table between us if that makes

1567
01:01:50,309 --> 01:01:46,799
sense

1568
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:50,319
yeah yeah yeah you know it's funny this

1569
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:52,319
uh i never really thought about that

1570
01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:54,480
type of thing

1571
01:02:00,470 --> 01:01:58,640
too deeply about you know what happens

1572
01:02:02,309 --> 01:02:00,480
and all that stuff but you know it's

1573
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:02,319
it's quite amazing because there's so

1574
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:03,760
many people that are

1575
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:06,880
interested in the ufo field that also

1576
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:09,200
have an interest in this type of things

1577
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:12,160
whether it's the near-death experiences

1578
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:12,480
or

1579
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:20,000
all of the past past lives all of that

1580
01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:23,200
i try to be open-minded that's how i

1581
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:23,760
think

1582
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:26,880
um you know we learn things is by being

1583
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:28,319
open-minded

1584
01:02:35,270 --> 01:02:31,920
so it's uh you know these are all things

1585
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:35,280
we don't have any evidence that there's

1586
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,400
nothing we don't have

1587
01:02:41,270 --> 01:02:38,400
any evidence that there's something and

1588
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:41,280
i don't see how there ever could be

1589
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:43,280
you know how could science ever explain

1590
01:02:48,309 --> 01:02:44,640
any of that

1591
01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:48,319
anyway right right

1592
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:51,359
right well i i i mean i would say there

1593
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:53,200
there is a type of evidence that there's

1594
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:55,280
something in the form of

1595
01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:58,079
people's experiences with with with near

1596
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:58,640
death

1597
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:00,640
um you know some people would call that

1598
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:02,880
evidence some people wouldn't

1599
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:05,760
i make a distinction in my book between

1600
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:06,720
experience

1601
01:03:13,510 --> 01:03:10,240
and evidence um and so

1602
01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:13,520
what i say is that there's there's human

1603
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:15,119
experience

1604
01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:17,200
that's the biggest that's the biggest

1605
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,280
thing there is in terms of

1606
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:21,359
um kind of what what we have to go on

1607
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:22,400
right what

1608
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:24,000
what do we have to go on we have human

1609
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:25,520
experience to go on we have our own

1610
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:26,559
experience

1611
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:29,599
and we have what other people say to us

1612
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:32,880
um and of course you have to be

1613
01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:35,599
you know shrewd and and sort of consider

1614
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,079
whether

1615
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:38,960
what someone's telling you is is a lie

1616
01:03:42,309 --> 01:03:40,079
but

1617
01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:42,319
human experience is really big let's say

1618
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:44,160
this is human experience

1619
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:46,000
and it includes very compelling

1620
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:47,760
experiences with

1621
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:50,880
all manner of you know ufos and spirits

1622
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:52,240
and channeling and near-death

1623
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:55,280
experiences and out-of-body experiences

1624
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:57,359
and then there's what science calls

1625
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:00,160
evidence which we could say is

1626
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:04,400
this this part science isn't looking at

1627
01:04:08,549 --> 01:04:05,839
human experience

1628
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:08,559
science is looking at certain types of

1629
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:10,000
human experience

1630
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:11,520
and it's looking at that experience

1631
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:13,280
through a certain lens

1632
01:04:18,069 --> 01:04:15,520
and it's trying to make it's trying to

1633
01:04:18,630 --> 01:04:18,079
bring generalized concepts out of that

1634
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:18,640
like

1635
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:22,400
force equals mass times acceleration so

1636
01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:23,599
i think that's a really important

1637
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,599
distinction is are you interested in

1638
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:27,119
human experience

1639
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:29,520
that you know i can see no way for

1640
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:31,039
instance like i watched the travis

1641
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:31,520
welton

1642
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:33,760
uh documentary i'm sure you saw that

1643
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:35,200
yeah

1644
01:04:40,150 --> 01:04:37,039
you know i watched that i haven't

1645
01:04:43,510 --> 01:04:40,160
personally talked to an abductee but

1646
01:04:45,109 --> 01:04:43,520
i just can see no way that you know that

1647
01:04:48,470 --> 01:04:45,119
he's making this up

1648
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:48,480
you know it it i'm not that cynical

1649
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:51,440
so um now i don't know where i was going

1650
01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:52,880
with this but

1651
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:55,520
basically i'm not going to write off

1652
01:04:58,950 --> 01:04:56,960
that experience i'm not going to write

1653
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:58,960
off that human experience because i have

1654
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:01,520
some idea of how the universe works

1655
01:05:05,029 --> 01:05:02,880
and then when you add up all the other

1656
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:05,039
people who've had similar experiences

1657
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:09,119
um it just

1658
01:05:13,349 --> 01:05:11,680
there's a lot out there right uh i'm

1659
01:05:13,990 --> 01:05:13,359
really glad that you brought up travis

1660
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:14,000
walton

1661
01:05:18,789 --> 01:05:17,119
and the reason uh that i'm glad is i'd

1662
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:18,799
like to address something

1663
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:20,960
and that is uh mike rogers who was on

1664
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:22,160
this show

1665
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:26,160
at one point um but was very very

1666
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:28,799
um unusual i don't i don't want to say

1667
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:29,520
anything

1668
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:32,880
negative or too negative but

1669
01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:36,400
um but i i will just say this mike has

1670
01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:39,599
some issues and who is that mike rogers

1671
01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:40,240
was the

1672
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:43,920
uh supervisor of the when travis walton

1673
01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:46,640
was uh abducted okay he was the one who

1674
01:05:49,670 --> 01:05:48,000
was actually driving the truck

1675
01:05:51,190 --> 01:05:49,680
and made the decision to go back and all

1676
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:51,200
that okay so

1677
01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:54,400
um interesting guy but right now he's

1678
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:54,880
out there

1679
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:57,680
publicly saying that they hoaxed it the

1680
01:06:01,349 --> 01:05:59,280
whole thing was a hoax

1681
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,359
and i'm sticking up i'm sticking up for

1682
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:03,119
travis walton

1683
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:06,400
because i don't i don't believe

1684
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:09,440
what mike is saying is true and uh

1685
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:10,880
and i don't care if you know he

1686
01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:12,559
threatens me or whatever he has sent me

1687
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:14,480
some very strange emails i will tell you

1688
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:15,440
that

1689
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:20,880
think travis walton's story is solid

1690
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:24,160
uh here's a quote from mike rogers

1691
01:06:31,270 --> 01:06:27,440
mike said well um

1692
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:33,430
so why would you go in the middle of the

1693
01:06:37,109 --> 01:06:34,720
woods

1694
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:37,119
and bring a ufo in the middle of the

1695
01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:39,599
woods if it was just going to be a story

1696
01:06:42,630 --> 01:06:41,680
you know i mean that absolutely makes no

1697
01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:42,640
sense

1698
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:44,240
so what i'm just saying is he's out

1699
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:46,400
there spouting things that

1700
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:48,960
make no sense but he's trying to get

1701
01:06:52,789 --> 01:06:50,160
attention

1702
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:52,799
and i just want to say that uh travis

1703
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:53,359
walton

1704
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:56,160
i think his story is solid and i've

1705
01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:57,839
invited him on the show to talk about it

1706
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:59,119
if you'd like to but i think he just

1707
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:00,480
wants to hang low

1708
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,880
kind of let it blow over but i know that

1709
01:07:06,069 --> 01:07:04,319
people are hearing about it because i'm

1710
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:06,079
getting a lot of emails so

1711
01:07:09,589 --> 01:07:07,599
if you're hearing about it just ignore

1712
01:07:12,069 --> 01:07:09,599
mike rogers because uh

1713
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:12,079
mike is just trying to cause trouble and

1714
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:14,640
stir things up so

1715
01:07:18,069 --> 01:07:16,400
anyway i'm glad i'm glad you brought

1716
01:07:19,550 --> 01:07:18,079
that up it got me it gave me the

1717
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:19,560
opportunity to talk about it

1718
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:20,880
[Music]

1719
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:24,319
hang on you know that's a that's kind of

1720
01:07:27,670 --> 01:07:24,559
a

1721
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:27,680
it reminds me of um sort of something i

1722
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:28,960
talk about

1723
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:31,039
in the book with respect to michael

1724
01:07:35,109 --> 01:07:33,200
crichton who

1725
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:35,119
i mean so michael crichton was someone

1726
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:37,760
who when he wrote that book travels

1727
01:07:41,589 --> 01:07:41,119
um he was a he was a successful novelist

1728
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:41,599
he had

1729
01:07:48,549 --> 01:07:46,960
you know a picture or two in hollywood

1730
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:48,559
he was a successful

1731
01:07:54,309 --> 01:07:51,839
um a successful guy um

1732
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:54,319
also of course he had the uh the snazzy

1733
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:56,000
harvard credentials and the harvard med

1734
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:57,119
school thing

1735
01:08:00,390 --> 01:07:59,039
and he he just took some time to write

1736
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:00,400
this book and

1737
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:02,720
you know he wrote about he wrote about

1738
01:08:07,109 --> 01:08:04,880
going to a spoon bending party

1739
01:08:08,710 --> 01:08:07,119
where he he says i bent a spoon and i

1740
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:08,720
knew it wasn't a trick

1741
01:08:14,230 --> 01:08:12,240
um and and other phenomena

1742
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:14,240
and there's a sort of quiet matter of

1743
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:16,319
factness to this he he wasn't out there

1744
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:19,040
he didn't mount a crusade you know for

1745
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:22,080
to try to get everyone to believe in it

1746
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:24,640
um there are debunkers out there who

1747
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:27,359
sort of do mount crusades um

1748
01:08:31,349 --> 01:08:29,600
uh you know like someone like michael

1749
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:31,359
shermer the skeptic magazine

1750
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:34,560
uh editor he gives talks and

1751
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:38,000
but you know to me there's enough of

1752
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:40,560
this just sort of quiet under the radar

1753
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,400
people reporting these things they're

1754
01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:44,000
not trying to get attention they're not

1755
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,679
trying to do anything except say hey

1756
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:47,440
this happened

1757
01:08:53,030 --> 01:08:50,640
yeah i think it's pretty ironic where

1758
01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:53,040
the last guest i had last week of the um

1759
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:54,319
f-16

1760
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,040
fighter pilot someone wrote me um he's

1761
01:09:02,229 --> 01:08:58,960
just trying to make money

1762
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:02,239
and he's made zero zero um

1763
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:04,560
right not even a penny on any of this

1764
01:09:09,110 --> 01:09:06,400
it's just a fascination

1765
01:09:09,669 --> 01:09:09,120
so there is there is this uh definitely

1766
01:09:12,309 --> 01:09:09,679
this

1767
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:12,319
misconception that you know people may

1768
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:13,440
say oh

1769
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:15,120
chris spark is just trying to sell his

1770
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:17,520
book well it's it's a lot more than that

1771
01:09:21,349 --> 01:09:19,920
there's uh this is you know a very

1772
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:21,359
interesting topic and i'm

1773
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:23,120
thrilled you're you're willing to talk

1774
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:25,040
about it

1775
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:26,880
well it's fun and i i really appreciate

1776
01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:29,279
you uh giving me the the forum and

1777
01:09:32,829 --> 01:09:32,000
and uh having this conversation yeah

1778
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:32,839
yeah

1779
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:37,920
your father and

1780
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:40,799
kind of like the old school science um

1781
01:09:44,149 --> 01:09:41,120
do

1782
01:09:48,390 --> 01:09:44,159
have you felt that there's any

1783
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:48,400
uh more liberal thoughts to science

1784
01:09:53,110 --> 01:09:51,279
um in the last several years anything

1785
01:09:56,149 --> 01:09:53,120
changing or do you think it's still very

1786
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:58,070
i mean i i may not be the best person to

1787
01:10:00,870 --> 01:10:00,159
ask that um you know i don't i don't

1788
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:00,880
kind of have my

1789
01:10:07,830 --> 01:10:05,280
my finger on the pulse of of academia um

1790
01:10:09,189 --> 01:10:07,840
so sure i don't i don't really know the

1791
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:09,199
answer to that

1792
01:10:13,110 --> 01:10:11,600
well how about your teachings in school

1793
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:13,120
is um

1794
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:16,159
is it just the basic science that say i

1795
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:17,360
would have

1796
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:19,440
had in high school over the years or

1797
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:20,880
things getting more

1798
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:26,070
uh i you know i i just stick to the

1799
01:10:30,310 --> 01:10:28,000
basics

1800
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:30,320
your basic biology chemistry physics and

1801
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:32,480
uh you know if someone if someone starts

1802
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:33,199
asking me

1803
01:10:40,229 --> 01:10:36,880
about my opinion uh i'll tell them um

1804
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:40,239
about you know but i don't i don't push

1805
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:41,040
any of that

1806
01:10:47,590 --> 01:10:43,920
or yeah unless i sort of feel like i

1807
01:10:51,189 --> 01:10:50,229
well yeah you mentioned john mack

1808
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:51,199
earlier

1809
01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:54,560
and uh i have a very

1810
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:56,239
high regard for his work i never knew

1811
01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:58,560
him he he was

1812
01:11:02,950 --> 01:11:00,560
killed in an accident you know i believe

1813
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:02,960
before i even started this show

1814
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:05,600
so i never had an opportunity to talk

1815
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:07,360
with him i would have loved to

1816
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:11,360
but um there's a right there is a

1817
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:13,920
um an example of someone that was

1818
01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:15,840
willing to take the risk

1819
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:19,440
you know to look into this topic and

1820
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:21,600
um you know it's too bad too bad he

1821
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:23,600
didn't live longer and do more

1822
01:11:27,189 --> 01:11:25,679
but it sounds to me that you've looked

1823
01:11:31,750 --> 01:11:27,199
into the ariel school

1824
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:31,760
incident have you to some extent yeah

1825
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:34,960
very a little bit yeah to me i've

1826
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:36,560
i've said a number of times i think

1827
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:38,400
that's one of the top

1828
01:11:42,470 --> 01:11:41,120
ufo encounters or whatever you want to

1829
01:11:44,870 --> 01:11:42,480
call it encounters

1830
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:44,880
of all time and i you know the more i

1831
01:11:48,310 --> 01:11:46,320
think about it over the years

1832
01:11:49,669 --> 01:11:48,320
i would almost consider that the number

1833
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:49,679
one

1834
01:11:56,470 --> 01:11:53,600
um there is a film coming out

1835
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:56,480
and i get email every week about it and

1836
01:12:18,070 --> 01:11:56,800
i

1837
01:12:20,790 --> 01:12:18,080
almost every week

1838
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:20,800
um i'm not hearing back from from randy

1839
01:12:24,070 --> 01:12:21,600
but i just

1840
01:12:25,510 --> 01:12:24,080
know that uh through someone else that

1841
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:25,520
we should be seeing it by the end of the

1842
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:26,800
year

1843
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:28,800
and keep your eyes open for that it'll

1844
01:12:36,149 --> 01:12:35,510
yeah that um that and the rendulsham

1845
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:36,159
forest

1846
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:38,320
seemed to me like a pretty one of the

1847
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:40,719
ones that's pretty pretty far up there

1848
01:12:47,110 --> 01:12:44,080
yeah um you know before i forget

1849
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,120
i wanted to just swing back about that

1850
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:49,440
when you know when you you you said um

1851
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:51,280
you know someone will say oh he just

1852
01:12:54,310 --> 01:12:53,040
did that for the money or wrote the book

1853
01:12:55,990 --> 01:12:54,320
for the money

1854
01:12:58,390 --> 01:12:56,000
it's funny that you don't you don't hear

1855
01:12:59,830 --> 01:12:58,400
that you know like about richard dawkins

1856
01:13:00,870 --> 01:12:59,840
who writes about you know the god

1857
01:13:02,630 --> 01:13:00,880
delusion or

1858
01:13:04,149 --> 01:13:02,640
a scientist right they didn't do it for

1859
01:13:06,550 --> 01:13:04,159
the money they're just

1860
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:06,560
they're just objective scientists sam

1861
01:13:13,669 --> 01:13:07,199
harris

1862
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:13,679
yeah right no i mean if if

1863
01:13:18,709 --> 01:13:16,320
anyone anyone is open to that criticism

1864
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:18,719
it's just sort of spouting things off

1865
01:13:22,550 --> 01:13:20,960
randomly because you don't like what's

1866
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:22,560
being said

1867
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:25,199
yeah i've uh i've listened to dawkins uh

1868
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:26,719
read as hate mail i thought

1869
01:13:37,510 --> 01:13:34,390
anyway uh here's here's a question

1870
01:13:39,669 --> 01:13:37,520
are you this is up in chat and jay allen

1871
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:39,679
wants to know are you aware of hal put

1872
01:13:42,870 --> 01:13:40,480
off

1873
01:13:44,630 --> 01:13:42,880
and eric davis physics research into the

1874
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:44,640
meta materials

1875
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:46,560
they have a contract with the army to

1876
01:13:51,669 --> 01:13:49,199
use usg military labs

1877
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,679
to investigate these artifacts which is

1878
01:13:56,310 --> 01:13:53,760
that is all true

1879
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:56,320
wow no i i was not i was not aware of

1880
01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:57,600
that at all

1881
01:14:00,870 --> 01:13:59,520
yeah interesting whether and i don't

1882
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:00,880
know if that that goes

1883
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:04,080
to these crash ufo evidence and

1884
01:14:08,950 --> 01:14:06,000
i have no idea if that exists or not you

1885
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:08,960
know someone would ask me

1886
01:14:13,990 --> 01:14:12,000
if there is materials for sure i don't i

1887
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:14,000
i wouldn't know i don't there's a lot of

1888
01:14:20,709 --> 01:14:16,320
people that say there is but

1889
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:20,719
i don't even know if the whole

1890
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:23,920
to me the ufo phenomenon is not it's not

1891
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:24,880
restricted

1892
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:26,560
this is sort of gets back to this theme

1893
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:29,040
of drawing boundaries and divisions

1894
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:31,440
um and sort of separating things off

1895
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:33,040
into neat little convenient

1896
01:14:37,669 --> 01:14:36,400
you know bite-sized pieces to me the ufo

1897
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:37,679
phenomena is not

1898
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:40,880
it's not restricted to you know just

1899
01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:44,159
travis welton in a in a you in a

1900
01:14:50,470 --> 01:14:47,199
a spacecraft it's it's spread out it

1901
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:50,480
like it it's sort of it's this strange

1902
01:14:54,550 --> 01:14:53,280
area where you know it what reminded me

1903
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:54,560
was you're talking about the government

1904
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:55,040
like

1905
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:58,560
hiding something

1906
01:15:02,390 --> 01:15:00,960
i heard this i heard this there's this

1907
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:02,400
sort of whole

1908
01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:06,000
kind of strange mist around the topic

1909
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:09,440
that it it just sort of

1910
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:11,760
makes you question beliefs and

1911
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:15,280
objectivity and subjectivity and uh

1912
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:17,120
it's a fascinating realm and i don't

1913
01:15:20,950 --> 01:15:18,719
pretend to you know i

1914
01:15:22,830 --> 01:15:20,960
i feel like the almost the whole point

1915
01:15:26,070 --> 01:15:22,840
of it is to

1916
01:15:27,669 --> 01:15:26,080
um kind of push our boundaries or our

1917
01:15:30,630 --> 01:15:27,679
limits

1918
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:30,640
um i think an interesting analogy is is

1919
01:15:36,070 --> 01:15:32,640
the trickster i don't know how how uh

1920
01:15:38,630 --> 01:15:36,080
much aware you are of the the trickster

1921
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:38,640
sort of uh god if you will in various

1922
01:15:42,470 --> 01:15:40,560
mythologies but

1923
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:42,480
i think ufos and various phenomena like

1924
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:44,320
that are related to that

1925
01:15:47,350 --> 01:15:46,400
they're sort of they're tris they're

1926
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:47,360
trickster-like

1927
01:15:50,950 --> 01:15:50,080
figures that that love to sort of push

1928
01:15:53,430 --> 01:15:50,960
buttons

1929
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:53,440
and play with our kind of neat little

1930
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:55,840
convenient ideas about reality

1931
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:57,360
and that's actually that is their role

1932
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:58,880
in lots of mythologies

1933
01:16:02,149 --> 01:16:01,199
is to just kind of shake things up and

1934
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:02,159
you know

1935
01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:05,360
get you off your beaten path and

1936
01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:08,320
um there's been a lot of that in in this

1937
01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:09,280
field

1938
01:16:12,390 --> 01:16:11,840
definitely you know going all the way

1939
01:16:15,350 --> 01:16:12,400
back to

1940
01:16:16,070 --> 01:16:15,360
richard doty and the paul benowitz case

1941
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:16,080
these are all

1942
01:16:20,149 --> 01:16:18,560
interesting things where there was all

1943
01:16:23,350 --> 01:16:20,159
uh misinformation

1944
01:16:25,189 --> 01:16:23,360
pumped his way so he would uh

1945
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:25,199
he would look into something else away

1946
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:27,199
from the air base and stop filming what

1947
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:29,040
he was filming and you know that type of

1948
01:16:33,030 --> 01:16:29,760
thing

1949
01:16:34,390 --> 01:16:33,040
so the the government has done this in

1950
01:16:37,510 --> 01:16:34,400
the past you know i mean

1951
01:16:39,510 --> 01:16:37,520
against its own people yeah

1952
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:39,520
yeah it it the whole topic seems to sort

1953
01:16:45,430 --> 01:16:41,440
of bring out this

1954
01:16:47,910 --> 01:16:45,440
sort of deceitful subterfuge strange

1955
01:16:49,669 --> 01:16:47,920
behavior and it and it's just surrounds

1956
01:16:50,950 --> 01:16:49,679
it all and it makes it very hard to to

1957
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:50,960
make heads or tails

1958
01:16:54,630 --> 01:16:53,040
and say anything definitive about these

1959
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:54,640
things

1960
01:16:57,990 --> 01:16:57,280
yeah you know i've uh i've said a number

1961
01:17:01,350 --> 01:16:58,000
of times that

1962
01:17:04,550 --> 01:17:01,360
and i believe this that um perhaps

1963
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:04,560
the government knows maybe more than

1964
01:17:08,470 --> 01:17:06,000
they're saying

1965
01:17:10,149 --> 01:17:08,480
but i really highly doubt that they know

1966
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:10,159
what it is

1967
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:12,080
right you know i don't think they know

1968
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:13,600
that connection

1969
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:15,520
and the rumors of eisenhower meeting

1970
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:16,640
with aliens and

1971
01:17:19,830 --> 01:17:18,159
all that stuff i don't i don't really

1972
01:17:20,709 --> 01:17:19,840
buy that stuff but maybe i'm wrong i

1973
01:17:23,910 --> 01:17:20,719
mean

1974
01:17:26,950 --> 01:17:23,920
right it is possible

1975
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:26,960
right so and i don't know if you heard

1976
01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:28,640
any of those rumors that there was a

1977
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:30,400
packed sign that they could abduct

1978
01:17:36,870 --> 01:17:31,840
people um

1979
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:36,880
if they gave technology that they had

1980
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:38,159
you know that type of thing and that's

1981
01:17:43,669 --> 01:17:40,480
why we had such a big spike in tactile

1982
01:17:47,189 --> 01:17:43,679
technology ah yeah no i had

1983
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:47,199
that one of course it was aliens yes

1984
01:17:50,149 --> 01:17:48,719
so there was another question that came

1985
01:17:51,590 --> 01:17:50,159
up here and speaking of questions we're

1986
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:51,600
going to open the lines

1987
01:17:55,189 --> 01:17:53,120
a little bit early tonight if anyone

1988
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:55,199
would like to call in and ask you a

1989
01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:57,360
question but i did see another question

1990
01:18:00,709 --> 01:18:00,320
and if you're going to put a question in

1991
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:00,719
chat

1992
01:18:05,669 --> 01:18:03,840
please do put them in all caps

1993
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:05,679
um this is uh he wanted to know what

1994
01:18:09,590 --> 01:18:07,040
what are your thoughts on the

1995
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:09,600
bermuda triangle journey wants to know

1996
01:18:14,310 --> 01:18:10,239
that

1997
01:18:16,470 --> 01:18:14,320
well um you know it it

1998
01:18:17,910 --> 01:18:16,480
i don't i don't know i'm not an expert

1999
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:17,920
on that i i haven't

2000
01:18:22,310 --> 01:18:20,159
i didn't look into that too much for

2001
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:22,320
this book um

2002
01:18:26,870 --> 01:18:24,480
and uh it does seem though that there

2003
01:18:29,910 --> 01:18:26,880
are certain places on the planet

2004
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:29,920
um where there's sort of active

2005
01:18:33,510 --> 01:18:32,719
spots um you know and again this this

2006
01:18:35,910 --> 01:18:33,520
goes back

2007
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:35,920
through through history and cultures

2008
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:37,840
where you know there were sacred sites

2009
01:18:42,390 --> 01:18:38,640
where

2010
01:18:43,830 --> 01:18:42,400
greeks would go and these fumes would

2011
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,840
come up from the earth

2012
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:45,600
um sort of you could think of them as

2013
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:46,960
sort of hot spots

2014
01:18:50,630 --> 01:18:49,600
where where this sort of energy or

2015
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:50,640
psychic

2016
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,880
is more likely

2017
01:18:58,390 --> 01:18:56,960
there's little what the irish would call

2018
01:18:59,830 --> 01:18:58,400
fairy hills right where you're more

2019
01:19:01,750 --> 01:18:59,840
likely to see fairies

2020
01:19:02,870 --> 01:19:01,760
which are very much similar type of

2021
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:02,880
phenomenon

2022
01:19:06,149 --> 01:19:05,440
so um it certainly seems to me that

2023
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:06,159
there are

2024
01:19:09,990 --> 01:19:09,120
places on the planet that are more prone

2025
01:19:13,110 --> 01:19:10,000
to

2026
01:19:15,990 --> 01:19:13,120
certain certain phenomena like that

2027
01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:16,000
i agree and and that's just i mean

2028
01:19:21,110 --> 01:19:18,320
trying to figure out how to explain that

2029
01:19:22,070 --> 01:19:21,120
i mean it makes no sense at all and

2030
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:22,080
right and and

2031
01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:25,199
also when say for instance a ufo's

2032
01:19:29,030 --> 01:19:27,440
ufo sightings will happen over and over

2033
01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:29,040
and over again

2034
01:19:33,510 --> 01:19:32,320
and and in one area and right i'm almost

2035
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:33,520
predictable

2036
01:19:37,910 --> 01:19:36,000
you know which is another uh crazy

2037
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:37,920
situation

2038
01:19:41,910 --> 01:19:40,400
or like uh the man in uh in west

2039
01:19:45,350 --> 01:19:41,920
virginia i think it was

2040
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:45,360
wow uh the marfa lights

2041
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:49,040
around texas uh quite a localized

2042
01:19:52,709 --> 01:19:50,960
phenomenon that apparently

2043
01:19:54,390 --> 01:19:52,719
from what i read has been going on since

2044
01:19:55,830 --> 01:19:54,400
the native americans were the only

2045
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:55,840
people there

2046
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:00,480
and there sorry there's a boat coming in

2047
01:20:06,390 --> 01:20:03,600
there is i think there's an attempt to

2048
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:06,400
prove what that is but um i don't know

2049
01:20:11,669 --> 01:20:07,040
if that's

2050
01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:11,679
particular but

2051
01:20:16,310 --> 01:20:13,760
have you looked into the skinwalker

2052
01:20:19,110 --> 01:20:16,320
ranch that's another good example of

2053
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:19,120
a crazy is it it's called the skinwalker

2054
01:20:23,189 --> 01:20:21,360
ranch in utah

2055
01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:23,199
no i haven't heard of that yeah our

2056
01:20:26,149 --> 01:20:24,400
history channel did a

2057
01:20:27,910 --> 01:20:26,159
um a series on i think they're still

2058
01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:27,920
doing an active series

2059
01:20:32,149 --> 01:20:30,480
uh possibly another season but just many

2060
01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:32,159
weird things happen whether they're

2061
01:20:36,310 --> 01:20:32,719
happening

2062
01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:36,320
or not i don't know

2063
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:37,679
you know a lot of that i don't want to

2064
01:20:44,470 --> 01:20:40,880
say is staged but

2065
01:20:46,149 --> 01:20:44,480
some of that is just plain

2066
01:20:48,229 --> 01:20:46,159
using the wrong equipment and getting

2067
01:20:50,790 --> 01:20:48,239
readings you know things like that

2068
01:20:51,910 --> 01:20:50,800
but uh anyway it's interesting we

2069
01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:51,920
actually have someone

2070
01:20:57,669 --> 01:20:55,120
uh on the phone here let me uh pull them

2071
01:20:58,709 --> 01:20:57,679
up hang on just a second we have uh

2072
01:21:04,149 --> 01:20:58,719
carrie

2073
01:21:07,830 --> 01:21:06,790
hi how are you hey martin i'm fine thank

2074
01:21:10,070 --> 01:21:07,840
you hi chris

2075
01:21:11,590 --> 01:21:10,080
hey i was just going to you stole my you

2076
01:21:14,550 --> 01:21:11,600
saw my question there uh

2077
01:21:16,310 --> 01:21:14,560
my response basically what did he think

2078
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:16,320
of skinwalker ranch and we have like

2079
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:18,719
travis power who's an astrophysicist

2080
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:20,400
but you brought up a point that was kind

2081
01:21:24,229 --> 01:21:22,719
of interesting because brandon and

2082
01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:24,239
thomas were with george knapp this

2083
01:21:26,709 --> 01:21:25,120
weekend

2084
01:21:27,910 --> 01:21:26,719
and you asked if like maybe some of the

2085
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:27,920
things that sort of staged for the

2086
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:28,960
cameras

2087
01:21:34,629 --> 01:21:32,960
and uh they were actually i'm sorry

2088
01:21:36,310 --> 01:21:34,639
oh no i don't know that might have been

2089
01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:36,320
that wasn't me but i didn't

2090
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:38,400
just to correct you i didn't say staged

2091
01:21:41,669 --> 01:21:39,440
i said the

2092
01:21:43,110 --> 01:21:41,679
some of their equipment was showing

2093
01:21:44,709 --> 01:21:43,120
readings when it may have not been the

2094
01:21:45,910 --> 01:21:44,719
right equipment i've been told this by

2095
01:21:48,629 --> 01:21:45,920
scientists

2096
01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:48,639
so but i don't know you know i don't um

2097
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:49,360
it's

2098
01:21:56,390 --> 01:21:53,120
second second hand right now

2099
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:56,400
but go ahead continue they sort of seem

2100
01:21:58,870 --> 01:21:57,440
like they know what they're doing but

2101
01:22:00,629 --> 01:21:58,880
one of the things that they were talking

2102
01:22:01,910 --> 01:22:00,639
about because somebody has that question

2103
01:22:03,990 --> 01:22:01,920
these things only happen when the

2104
01:22:04,709 --> 01:22:04,000
cameras are on and actually they were

2105
01:22:06,629 --> 01:22:04,719
saying no

2106
01:22:08,310 --> 01:22:06,639
a lot of times when the cameras aren't

2107
01:22:10,310 --> 01:22:08,320
on things happen and they can't capture

2108
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:10,320
them and sometimes they're actually

2109
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:12,639
believing there's an intelligence behind

2110
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:14,960
behind it all because a camera will go

2111
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:16,800
down where something happens and then

2112
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:18,239
come back on again

2113
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:20,880
after the event happened and uh they are

2114
01:22:25,189 --> 01:22:23,360
going to have a third season

2115
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:25,199
and uh it's just uh you know like their

2116
01:22:28,629 --> 01:22:27,120
last if you saw the season finale where

2117
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:28,639
they were flying the helicopter

2118
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,120
and something invisible the crap was

2119
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:32,880
registering on the radar beneath the

2120
01:22:36,229 --> 01:22:33,840
helicopter i mean

2121
01:22:38,070 --> 01:22:36,239
it's just like you talk about science

2122
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:38,080
and things beyond what we can understand

2123
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:39,840
after watching that show and you know

2124
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:41,600
just all the research that went on out

2125
01:22:49,910 --> 01:22:42,080
there

2126
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:49,920
psychic beings portals

2127
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:52,480
yeah the portal thing yeah that's really

2128
01:22:55,830 --> 01:22:53,920
something chris to look into

2129
01:22:57,270 --> 01:22:55,840
because you know they had a team of

2130
01:23:00,070 --> 01:22:57,280
scientists there

2131
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,080
for a number of years and they were out

2132
01:23:03,990 --> 01:23:01,920
one night and they saw this

2133
01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:04,000
portal just show up and this thing that

2134
01:23:09,270 --> 01:23:06,639
looked kind of like a bigfoot

2135
01:23:11,430 --> 01:23:09,280
came out of this portal and the portal

2136
01:23:12,950 --> 01:23:11,440
closed up i mean it's bizarre they

2137
01:23:14,310 --> 01:23:12,960
didn't catch it on film they weren't

2138
01:23:18,310 --> 01:23:14,320
prepared for it

2139
01:23:19,830 --> 01:23:18,320
but uh yeah yeah

2140
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:19,840
is this kerry from the northern

2141
01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:21,520
california that i

2142
01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:24,320
that i communicate with every night yep

2143
01:23:27,830 --> 01:23:24,719
yep

2144
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:27,840
that's me all right nice to talk to you

2145
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:30,080
anything else while you're on the line

2146
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:30,880
for our guest

2147
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:32,560
no that was pretty much about it and it

2148
01:23:35,270 --> 01:23:33,840
was really interesting to listen to

2149
01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:35,280
brandon and thomas to hear that the

2150
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:36,960
weird stuff goes on all the time they

2151
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:38,400
don't always capture everything

2152
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:39,440
and that they thought there was an

2153
01:23:42,550 --> 01:23:41,360
intelligence behind it all so i thought

2154
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:42,560
that was something that i had never

2155
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:44,560
heard before

2156
01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:46,320
yeah yeah there's something been going

2157
01:23:49,590 --> 01:23:48,000
on there a long time thanks a lot for

2158
01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:49,600
the call

2159
01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:51,040
my pleasure take care thank you for your

2160
01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:54,000
show thank you chris thanks

2161
01:23:57,910 --> 01:23:56,719
yeah yeah chris that's really um that's

2162
01:23:59,430 --> 01:23:57,920
really something you may want to look

2163
01:24:00,950 --> 01:23:59,440
into it's just because it is such a

2164
01:24:02,629 --> 01:24:00,960
fascinating place

2165
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:02,639
with so many weird things that have

2166
01:24:07,189 --> 01:24:05,120
happened there and

2167
01:24:08,550 --> 01:24:07,199
it goes back to the native americans

2168
01:24:11,110 --> 01:24:08,560
talking about

2169
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:11,120
you know incidents that were happening

2170
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:12,000
and that's why

2171
01:24:16,950 --> 01:24:13,840
they called the skinwalker that's a

2172
01:24:19,510 --> 01:24:16,960
native american term and

2173
01:24:20,550 --> 01:24:19,520
but anyway it's it's a fascinating place

2174
01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:20,560
but there are

2175
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,360
you know while we're on this subject of

2176
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:25,199
weird hot spots there are

2177
01:24:30,229 --> 01:24:28,320
many places there's brown mountain

2178
01:24:32,550 --> 01:24:30,239
where there's ufos seen there all the

2179
01:24:35,110 --> 01:24:32,560
time and in the south somewhere

2180
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:35,120
um i'm just trying to think of some

2181
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:36,480
other ones but

2182
01:24:43,510 --> 01:24:40,320
over in norway

2183
01:24:46,070 --> 01:24:43,520
uh hestelgen lights um

2184
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:46,080
that have been seen for a hundred years

2185
01:24:50,550 --> 01:24:47,760
you know just strange things maybe some

2186
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:50,560
of them are natural phenomenon

2187
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:55,280
from say deposits and

2188
01:24:59,350 --> 01:24:57,520
metals or something in the local

2189
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:59,360
geography or something like that i'm not

2190
01:25:25,590 --> 01:25:00,480
i

2191
01:25:27,189 --> 01:25:25,600
because

2192
01:25:28,950 --> 01:25:27,199
i don't i'll make a fool of myself

2193
01:25:30,950 --> 01:25:28,960
because i don't i don't really know

2194
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:30,960
what causes it to happen but it's

2195
01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:33,040
something it's a natural phenomenon that

2196
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:34,080
happens

2197
01:25:40,149 --> 01:25:37,199
okay which is another bizarre thing

2198
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:40,159
but that that actually reminds me of

2199
01:25:44,470 --> 01:25:41,440
sort of the

2200
01:25:46,149 --> 01:25:44,480
another tactic that um skeptics really

2201
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:46,159
like to employ and i think

2202
01:25:50,709 --> 01:25:48,400
i think um you know a lot of people in

2203
01:25:53,030 --> 01:25:50,719
in the general public too where

2204
01:25:54,629 --> 01:25:53,040
you know they'll take say one or two

2205
01:25:58,709 --> 01:25:54,639
phenomena which were

2206
01:26:00,629 --> 01:25:58,719
thought to be um paranormal or whatever

2207
01:26:03,030 --> 01:26:00,639
and then they get explained and then

2208
01:26:05,350 --> 01:26:03,040
sort of that one example is used as

2209
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:05,360
as a well they're all explainable like

2210
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:07,120
they always turn out to be

2211
01:26:11,270 --> 01:26:08,960
something explainable and therefore we

2212
01:26:14,709 --> 01:26:11,280
can kind of forget the whole topic

2213
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:14,719
um showing that throwing the baby out

2214
01:26:18,310 --> 01:26:15,679
with the bathwater

2215
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:18,320
basically right right which is not a of

2216
01:26:23,270 --> 01:26:20,080
course is not a scientific attitude

2217
01:26:25,270 --> 01:26:23,280
right uh so

2218
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:25,280
that's actually one thing i sort of

2219
01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:27,199
argue in the book is that

2220
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:29,199
scientists don't have a very scientific

2221
01:26:33,430 --> 01:26:31,840
attitude when it comes to this

2222
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:33,440
when it comes to this whole realm and

2223
01:26:39,590 --> 01:26:36,480
again i don't blame them because

2224
01:26:41,270 --> 01:26:39,600
it's it's a tricky realm and it doesn't

2225
01:26:42,870 --> 01:26:41,280
play by the rules it doesn't play by the

2226
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:42,880
rule book so

2227
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:46,239
um and i'm not sure how practical it is

2228
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:47,920
you know i mean science

2229
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:49,840
science seems to me largely about

2230
01:26:54,149 --> 01:26:51,040
practical issues

2231
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:54,159
um and i'm i'm not sure how practical

2232
01:26:57,830 --> 01:26:55,600
any of this stuff is that doesn't mean

2233
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:57,840
it's again it's not real obviously but

2234
01:27:01,350 --> 01:27:00,560
um so i don't know how fruitful it would

2235
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:01,360
be

2236
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:04,880
for scientists to investigate a lot of

2237
01:27:07,350 --> 01:27:05,360
this stuff

2238
01:27:08,550 --> 01:27:07,360
maybe it is i cuz i don't know that much

2239
01:27:11,030 --> 01:27:08,560
about

2240
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:11,040
like the skinwalker ranch or they're

2241
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:12,560
apparently

2242
01:27:18,310 --> 01:27:15,760
sending some crews up there but yeah

2243
01:27:20,550 --> 01:27:18,320
well you know it's always about a lot of

2244
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:20,560
it's about funding and can you

2245
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:22,880
solve this problem within so many years

2246
01:27:26,950 --> 01:27:24,239
and that's what

2247
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:26,960
funding is you know the drive to get the

2248
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:29,280
funding is you have to have an end goal

2249
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:31,440
so that makes it really difficult we

2250
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:33,600
have joanie calling from pennsylvania

2251
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:43,270
joanie you're on the air

2252
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:46,709
bill all right

2253
01:27:51,030 --> 01:27:48,560
he's part of the call but she's not i

2254
01:27:54,870 --> 01:27:51,040
don't think she's responding

2255
01:27:56,790 --> 01:27:54,880
all right okay so uh will

2256
01:27:59,189 --> 01:27:56,800
you i don't know if she's uh hung up or

2257
01:28:01,030 --> 01:27:59,199
whatever but thank you bill for trying

2258
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:01,040
anyway the lines are open and that phone

2259
01:28:07,350 --> 01:28:04,880
number is 855-472-5483 and bill is

2260
01:28:10,950 --> 01:28:07,360
standing by

2261
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:10,960
um so uh i forgot

2262
01:28:14,950 --> 01:28:13,120
exactly where we were because i was just

2263
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:14,960
took that call

2264
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:18,080
so so moving on yeah

2265
01:28:25,270 --> 01:28:21,760
moving on the as far as

2266
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:25,280
um as far as what we see visually

2267
01:28:29,510 --> 01:28:27,760
and we know what's around us there's

2268
01:28:30,550 --> 01:28:29,520
there's that's only just part of what's

2269
01:28:34,070 --> 01:28:30,560
going on

2270
01:28:35,430 --> 01:28:34,080
too you know uh there's probably a lot

2271
01:28:37,750 --> 01:28:35,440
more going around

2272
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:37,760
on around us that we we're just

2273
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:38,639
oblivious to

2274
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:42,000
what do you think about that well there

2275
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:43,520
definitely is i mean you

2276
01:28:47,669 --> 01:28:46,080
first of all according to science there

2277
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:47,679
is uh there's

2278
01:28:51,830 --> 01:28:50,080
something like 400 billion little

2279
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:51,840
particles called neutrinos

2280
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:53,360
streaming through every square inch of

2281
01:28:57,830 --> 01:28:55,199
our bodies every second

2282
01:28:59,430 --> 01:28:57,840
um and we just are not biologically

2283
01:29:02,470 --> 01:28:59,440
equipped to be aware of that

2284
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:02,480
thank god uh

2285
01:29:06,550 --> 01:29:05,520
and uh you know there's there's you

2286
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:06,560
can't see uv

2287
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:08,400
light you can't see ultraviolet light

2288
01:29:11,830 --> 01:29:10,159
you can't see x-rays you

2289
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:11,840
you can't see radio waves but they're

2290
01:29:16,550 --> 01:29:14,960
all you know to some extent streaming

2291
01:29:18,229 --> 01:29:16,560
streaming through and around us all the

2292
01:29:21,110 --> 01:29:18,239
time there are

2293
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:21,120
um you know you're not aware of the of

2294
01:29:23,910 --> 01:29:22,000
the

2295
01:29:25,110 --> 01:29:23,920
trillions of bacteria crawling in in

2296
01:29:27,270 --> 01:29:25,120
your insides

2297
01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:27,280
much less the red blood cells streaming

2298
01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:28,320
through your body

2299
01:29:31,350 --> 01:29:30,000
or the little mites crawling through

2300
01:29:36,070 --> 01:29:31,360
your eyebrows

2301
01:29:39,510 --> 01:29:36,080
or the sounds that your dog can hear

2302
01:29:40,390 --> 01:29:39,520
we we are in a universe that we are not

2303
01:29:42,310 --> 01:29:40,400
aware of

2304
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:42,320
you know even ask you stuff that science

2305
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:45,120
can explain so the idea that

2306
01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:46,800
maybe there's other things that are all

2307
01:29:50,950 --> 01:29:49,520
around us that we're not tuned to

2308
01:29:52,709 --> 01:29:50,960
that does not seem like too much of a

2309
01:29:55,270 --> 01:29:52,719
stretch to me

2310
01:29:58,229 --> 01:29:55,280
right i'll be right back i gotta go wash

2311
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:00,070
yeah sorry yeah sorry to bring that up

2312
01:30:06,870 --> 01:30:06,310
yeah no no it's right we really it's

2313
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:06,880
really

2314
01:30:09,910 --> 01:30:09,280
bizarre if you think about it um

2315
01:30:11,830 --> 01:30:09,920
everything

2316
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:11,840
around us and you know a lot of these

2317
01:30:17,669 --> 01:30:14,320
ufo sightings that have been

2318
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:17,679
seen recently um that have

2319
01:30:23,990 --> 01:30:21,120
made a lot of news you know like

2320
01:30:25,350 --> 01:30:24,000
um that are the videos that have been

2321
01:30:26,550 --> 01:30:25,360
released by the government

2322
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:26,560
saying they don't know what they are

2323
01:30:32,310 --> 01:30:28,800
those three three videos

2324
01:30:34,870 --> 01:30:32,320
um there a lot of them are

2325
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:34,880
in a different spectrum you know maybe

2326
01:30:38,709 --> 01:30:36,400
these things have been

2327
01:30:40,390 --> 01:30:38,719
all around all the time and we just

2328
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:40,400
weren't able to see them before

2329
01:30:43,910 --> 01:30:42,159
and speaking of that i also get a lot of

2330
01:30:47,189 --> 01:30:43,920
emails about people saying

2331
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:47,199
when is the 23 minute video going to be

2332
01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:48,560
released i don't know

2333
01:30:54,149 --> 01:30:52,320
lou elizondo said on a podcast

2334
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:54,159
a few weeks ago that there was a

2335
01:30:58,149 --> 01:30:55,920
23-minute video

2336
01:30:58,950 --> 01:30:58,159
that was most likely going to be

2337
01:31:02,149 --> 01:30:58,960
released

2338
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:02,159
with multiple ufos in it and that'll

2339
01:31:05,590 --> 01:31:03,760
that'll be earth shattering when that

2340
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:05,600
happens like and

2341
01:31:09,110 --> 01:31:07,760
so far everything that he says is going

2342
01:31:12,070 --> 01:31:09,120
to happen happens

2343
01:31:13,750 --> 01:31:12,080
so um hopefully we'll be seeing that

2344
01:31:18,550 --> 01:31:13,760
come out and maybe that'll

2345
01:31:25,830 --> 01:31:21,910
yeah yeah very good

2346
01:31:29,270 --> 01:31:25,840
uh all right can you can you hear me now

2347
01:31:30,390 --> 01:31:29,280
i can okay it's just uh it's frozen on

2348
01:31:35,590 --> 01:31:30,400
this side a little bit

2349
01:31:37,830 --> 01:31:35,600
um anyway uh moving on

2350
01:31:38,709 --> 01:31:37,840
there is something wrong with the phones

2351
01:31:40,870 --> 01:31:38,719
right now but

2352
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:40,880
uh don't be discouraged you can uh you

2353
01:31:45,270 --> 01:31:42,239
can still try to call in

2354
01:31:46,870 --> 01:31:45,280
and uh maybe bill will get that uh

2355
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:46,880
turned around

2356
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:49,440
that uh but for now if you'd like to

2357
01:31:54,390 --> 01:31:50,800
pose a question

2358
01:31:55,910 --> 01:31:54,400
please do so in chat and put that in all

2359
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:55,920
caps so it catches my eye

2360
01:32:02,629 --> 01:31:59,199
and i will i'll put that up there uh

2361
01:32:04,070 --> 01:32:02,639
for for you some of the other topics

2362
01:32:06,470 --> 01:32:04,080
you covered in your book you want to

2363
01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:06,480
talk briefly about that i saw there was

2364
01:32:12,950 --> 01:32:10,400
this uh um this i i heard about this

2365
01:32:14,709 --> 01:32:12,960
elderly man from india i think it was

2366
01:32:17,110 --> 01:32:14,719
over 100 years old

2367
01:32:19,030 --> 01:32:17,120
and like starved himself and was running

2368
01:32:19,750 --> 01:32:19,040
a marathon and all this i don't know if

2369
01:32:22,629 --> 01:32:19,760
that's

2370
01:32:24,830 --> 01:32:22,639
someone you wrote about as well some uh

2371
01:32:26,070 --> 01:32:24,840
if that's the same person you wrote

2372
01:32:27,750 --> 01:32:26,080
about

2373
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,760
uh that sounds like a different person

2374
01:32:31,669 --> 01:32:29,760
if if that if um

2375
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:31,679
over a hundred who ran a marathon

2376
01:32:37,189 --> 01:32:33,360
although maybe he has since

2377
01:32:40,870 --> 01:32:37,199
since i researched him um the uh

2378
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:40,880
that in the one of my essays i say um

2379
01:32:45,030 --> 01:32:43,920
i say you know science doesn't exist if

2380
01:32:47,750 --> 01:32:45,040
it did

2381
01:32:50,390 --> 01:32:47,760
you would have heard of prahlad jani um

2382
01:32:54,390 --> 01:32:50,400
prahlad jani is a holy man in india

2383
01:32:57,669 --> 01:32:54,400
who claims not to have eaten drunk or

2384
01:33:01,030 --> 01:32:57,679
past waste since 1940 uh

2385
01:33:02,550 --> 01:33:01,040
he was studied in an indian hospital in

2386
01:33:05,590 --> 01:33:02,560
ahmedabad

2387
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:05,600
um they put him in a room for i can't

2388
01:33:08,470 --> 01:33:06,960
remember the first time something like

2389
01:33:11,750 --> 01:33:08,480
10 days

2390
01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:11,760
and according to this you know all the

2391
01:33:15,350 --> 01:33:12,800
news agencies and

2392
01:33:17,510 --> 01:33:15,360
the doctors he did not eat drink or pass

2393
01:33:18,870 --> 01:33:17,520
waste for the 10 days

2394
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:18,880
then they brought him back and the

2395
01:33:22,390 --> 01:33:21,120
indian military got you know interested

2396
01:33:26,550 --> 01:33:22,400
and he was in they did

2397
01:33:29,830 --> 01:33:26,560
15 days same results apparently

2398
01:33:31,590 --> 01:33:29,840
according to what i read he emerged um

2399
01:33:34,070 --> 01:33:31,600
they you know did angiographs and all

2400
01:33:35,990 --> 01:33:34,080
that uh in better health than uh someone

2401
01:33:39,669 --> 01:33:36,000
half his age

2402
01:33:41,270 --> 01:33:39,679
um crazy and this is not a unique claim

2403
01:33:43,669 --> 01:33:41,280
there have been other people

2404
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:43,679
in india and other places in the world

2405
01:33:48,709 --> 01:33:45,199
that say this

2406
01:33:51,030 --> 01:33:48,719
and um so

2407
01:33:53,270 --> 01:33:51,040
you know again if if there was such a

2408
01:33:56,310 --> 01:33:53,280
thing as science

2409
01:33:58,310 --> 01:33:56,320
it would be it it would be

2410
01:33:59,350 --> 01:33:58,320
it would flock to a metabolite india

2411
01:34:01,590 --> 01:33:59,360
because this

2412
01:34:03,669 --> 01:34:01,600
this would be something that questions

2413
01:34:05,510 --> 01:34:03,679
the very fundamentals of biology right

2414
01:34:07,270 --> 01:34:05,520
of biological science

2415
01:34:10,390 --> 01:34:07,280
but since there isn't such a thing as

2416
01:34:12,950 --> 01:34:10,400
science there's only human scientists

2417
01:34:14,310 --> 01:34:12,960
the human scientists you know they're

2418
01:34:14,950 --> 01:34:14,320
gonna either they're not gonna hear

2419
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:14,960
about it

2420
01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:18,000
say oh yeah right

2421
01:34:22,470 --> 01:34:19,760
um they're not going to get a grant to

2422
01:34:24,790 --> 01:34:22,480
go there it's just all sorts of

2423
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:24,800
you know very human mundane reasons why

2424
01:34:27,830 --> 01:34:26,320
something like that would not be further

2425
01:34:29,830 --> 01:34:27,840
explored

2426
01:34:31,590 --> 01:34:29,840
and i'm not saying it's definitely true

2427
01:34:33,750 --> 01:34:31,600
or definitely not true

2428
01:34:35,350 --> 01:34:33,760
i'm just saying if there was such a

2429
01:34:37,189 --> 01:34:35,360
thing as just this objective thing

2430
01:34:40,390 --> 01:34:37,199
called science that was interested

2431
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:40,400
in you know revolutionary ideas

2432
01:34:45,109 --> 01:34:44,080
um we would be studying praladjani until

2433
01:34:47,430 --> 01:34:45,119
the cows came home

2434
01:34:49,990 --> 01:34:47,440
but in instead no one's ever heard of

2435
01:34:53,270 --> 01:34:52,470
wow yeah that's bizarre and what about

2436
01:34:55,590 --> 01:34:53,280
some other

2437
01:34:58,149 --> 01:34:55,600
other topics that you touch on in in

2438
01:35:01,990 --> 01:34:58,159
that in the realm of science and

2439
01:35:04,470 --> 01:35:02,000
and the weirdness of it the weirdness of

2440
01:35:05,030 --> 01:35:04,480
science or the weirdness of something

2441
01:35:07,189 --> 01:35:05,040
that

2442
01:35:08,229 --> 01:35:07,199
science cannot explain pardon me for not

2443
01:35:10,470 --> 01:35:08,239
being clear

2444
01:35:12,830 --> 01:35:10,480
oh sure uh let me think for a minute i i

2445
01:35:19,350 --> 01:35:12,840
have i have a few notes over here i made

2446
01:35:25,189 --> 01:35:22,470
so other weird things

2447
01:35:26,830 --> 01:35:25,199
science can't explain well i mean you

2448
01:35:33,430 --> 01:35:26,840
can take

2449
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:33,440
experiences uh you you

2450
01:35:39,910 --> 01:35:37,920
there's um are you familiar with um

2451
01:35:43,350 --> 01:35:39,920
what's her name she did the the book on

2452
01:35:46,149 --> 01:35:43,360
death and dying elizabeth kubler-ross

2453
01:35:48,310 --> 01:35:46,159
hmm i heard the name no i can't think of

2454
01:35:51,189 --> 01:35:48,320
i didn't read the book no

2455
01:35:52,790 --> 01:35:51,199
oh well she wrote a very famous book

2456
01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:52,800
called on death and dying

2457
01:35:58,950 --> 01:35:55,920
um which is just about sort of a more

2458
01:36:01,109 --> 01:35:58,960
humanitarian um

2459
01:36:03,189 --> 01:36:01,119
a more humanitarian treatment of people

2460
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:03,199
in you know who are dying and sort i

2461
01:36:07,750 --> 01:36:04,800
think she sort of

2462
01:36:08,709 --> 01:36:07,760
got the whole hospice movement going but

2463
01:36:12,870 --> 01:36:08,719
um

2464
01:36:16,950 --> 01:36:12,880
so her book made a big splash uh but

2465
01:36:19,990 --> 01:36:16,960
with the the experiences that um

2466
01:36:21,109 --> 01:36:20,000
that catalyzed that book part of what

2467
01:36:24,070 --> 01:36:21,119
she discovered was

2468
01:36:24,470 --> 01:36:24,080
a lot of people as they're nearing death

2469
01:36:26,870 --> 01:36:24,480
have

2470
01:36:28,070 --> 01:36:26,880
lots of you know that a girl was visited

2471
01:36:30,550 --> 01:36:28,080
by a man

2472
01:36:32,229 --> 01:36:30,560
who she described who turned out to

2473
01:36:33,350 --> 01:36:32,239
match the description of a dead uncle

2474
01:36:35,109 --> 01:36:33,360
she'd never met

2475
01:36:38,950 --> 01:36:35,119
another woman talked you know could

2476
01:36:40,629 --> 01:36:38,960
describe the doodles on a nurse's pad um

2477
01:36:43,510 --> 01:36:40,639
that she could see from above you know

2478
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:43,520
out of her body so elizabeth kubler-ross

2479
01:36:47,430 --> 01:36:46,320
heard all these you know quote crazy

2480
01:36:49,350 --> 01:36:47,440
stories

2481
01:36:50,870 --> 01:36:49,360
that people on their death beds would

2482
01:36:53,990 --> 01:36:50,880
report

2483
01:36:56,550 --> 01:36:54,000
quite compelling and convincing um

2484
01:36:58,310 --> 01:36:56,560
and she just left she she initially

2485
01:37:01,270 --> 01:36:58,320
wrote a whole chapter about that

2486
01:37:01,990 --> 01:37:01,280
and was going to put it in the book um

2487
01:37:03,669 --> 01:37:02,000
but

2488
01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:03,679
when it came time to actually publish

2489
01:37:06,229 --> 01:37:05,280
the book she decided to leave that out

2490
01:37:08,149 --> 01:37:06,239
because

2491
01:37:09,510 --> 01:37:08,159
she realized no one people would just

2492
01:37:12,470 --> 01:37:09,520
write off the whole book as

2493
01:37:14,070 --> 01:37:12,480
nonsense if she included it so you get

2494
01:37:16,070 --> 01:37:14,080
this kind of self-censorship

2495
01:37:17,590 --> 01:37:16,080
too i know this is not exactly what you

2496
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:17,600
asked me but

2497
01:37:21,669 --> 01:37:19,440
these are this amazing phenomena that

2498
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:21,679
never even get presented to the public

2499
01:37:24,470 --> 01:37:23,119
because

2500
01:37:26,709 --> 01:37:24,480
these people would like to be taken

2501
01:37:29,030 --> 01:37:26,719
seriously by the establishment

2502
01:37:30,870 --> 01:37:29,040
um i read about that actually in a great

2503
01:37:32,070 --> 01:37:30,880
book called fringeology by a guy named

2504
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:32,080
steve volk

2505
01:37:38,470 --> 01:37:34,800
you may have heard of that book um i

2506
01:37:41,750 --> 01:37:38,480
highly recommend that that book as well

2507
01:37:42,709 --> 01:37:41,760
yeah um yeah that's that's interesting i

2508
01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:42,719
have heard of

2509
01:37:48,790 --> 01:37:45,760
situations like that and leslie

2510
01:37:51,109 --> 01:37:48,800
kane is someone that has done a lot of

2511
01:37:52,550 --> 01:37:51,119
really good work she's a journalist in

2512
01:37:54,310 --> 01:37:52,560
the ufo world

2513
01:37:56,470 --> 01:37:54,320
and she has written some books and

2514
01:38:00,629 --> 01:37:56,480
actually there was a netflix

2515
01:38:03,430 --> 01:38:00,639
uh series on about about all that

2516
01:38:05,030 --> 01:38:03,440
near-death experiences and the people's

2517
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:05,040
accounts of them and

2518
01:38:11,590 --> 01:38:09,119
these strange you know past life things

2519
01:38:12,629 --> 01:38:11,600
that uh these are just totally

2520
01:38:15,910 --> 01:38:12,639
unexplainable

2521
01:38:16,870 --> 01:38:15,920
you know i mean no one has any answers

2522
01:38:20,149 --> 01:38:16,880
for

2523
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:20,159
um some of the situations that that were

2524
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:22,000
really fascinating some of it

2525
01:38:28,390 --> 01:38:25,360
i i'm not really sure you know whether i

2526
01:38:30,550 --> 01:38:28,400
buy it or not but uh but you know like

2527
01:38:33,350 --> 01:38:30,560
they say in the ufo world if

2528
01:38:35,510 --> 01:38:33,360
it only takes one ufo and the tens or

2529
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:35,520
thousands or hundreds of thousands of

2530
01:38:38,550 --> 01:38:37,199
ones that are witnesses it only takes

2531
01:38:43,669 --> 01:38:38,560
one to be

2532
01:38:45,510 --> 01:38:43,679
real you know to to change everything

2533
01:38:47,430 --> 01:38:45,520
yeah and one of the things about these

2534
01:38:49,109 --> 01:38:47,440
these you know you hear

2535
01:38:50,550 --> 01:38:49,119
you know maybe you hear something about

2536
01:38:52,229 --> 01:38:50,560
like what i described or you just

2537
01:38:54,790 --> 01:38:52,239
described

2538
01:38:56,629 --> 01:38:54,800
if you hear it in passing in our culture

2539
01:38:58,709 --> 01:38:56,639
it's quite easy to say

2540
01:39:01,109 --> 01:38:58,719
you know oh i'm sure either that was a

2541
01:39:03,990 --> 01:39:01,119
hoax or i don't believe it

2542
01:39:05,030 --> 01:39:04,000
and the the stories that are really

2543
01:39:06,550 --> 01:39:05,040
compelling

2544
01:39:08,310 --> 01:39:06,560
you really have to read about them in

2545
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:08,320
depth you ha and maybe

2546
01:39:12,229 --> 01:39:09,760
you know watch the person being

2547
01:39:14,070 --> 01:39:12,239
interviewed they're not

2548
01:39:15,750 --> 01:39:14,080
they're they're they're convincing this

2549
01:39:19,109 --> 01:39:15,760
their compelling nature

2550
01:39:20,550 --> 01:39:19,119
comes across through being explored more

2551
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:20,560
deeply

2552
01:39:24,470 --> 01:39:22,320
the case can't be made in a sort of

2553
01:39:25,830 --> 01:39:24,480
casual off-hand way

2554
01:39:27,669 --> 01:39:25,840
because if you do it that way it just

2555
01:39:31,510 --> 01:39:27,679
sounds crazy in our culture

2556
01:39:34,629 --> 01:39:31,520
and it's very easy to to dismiss so

2557
01:39:37,669 --> 01:39:34,639
you really you have to take the time to

2558
01:39:39,590 --> 01:39:37,679
read in detail to be convinced i just

2559
01:39:40,870 --> 01:39:39,600
think that's the nature of this subject

2560
01:39:43,910 --> 01:39:40,880
it requires

2561
01:39:45,270 --> 01:39:43,920
taking some time to explore it

2562
01:39:47,350 --> 01:39:45,280
you know and if you don't want to take

2563
01:39:50,629 --> 01:39:47,360
the time that's fine

2564
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:50,639
that's completely understandable

2565
01:39:53,430 --> 01:39:51,840
but i just don't think you're in a

2566
01:39:56,149 --> 01:39:53,440
position to make any judgments unless

2567
01:39:59,590 --> 01:39:56,159
you do take the time

2568
01:40:02,470 --> 01:39:59,600
that's a big problem with so many of

2569
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:02,480
the people that are skeptics and want to

2570
01:40:07,109 --> 01:40:03,760
say there's nothing to

2571
01:40:07,990 --> 01:40:07,119
this or nothing to that is they never

2572
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:08,000
take the time

2573
01:40:17,430 --> 01:40:15,830
yeah looks like we're having phone no

2574
01:40:19,109 --> 01:40:17,440
one can call in huh phone

2575
01:40:20,830 --> 01:40:19,119
phone issues well yeah we're having a

2576
01:40:23,990 --> 01:40:20,840
couple of issues and

2577
01:40:25,910 --> 01:40:24,000
um and uh

2578
01:40:27,510 --> 01:40:25,920
yeah there's a couple of issues here we

2579
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:27,520
might have to end the show a little

2580
01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:31,280
a little bit early um i can't really

2581
01:40:36,070 --> 01:40:33,440
i can't see anything on the screen on on

2582
01:40:38,149 --> 01:40:36,080
my side i haven't seen you move forever

2583
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:38,159
so i don't know i don't know if you can

2584
01:40:43,189 --> 01:40:39,679
see me

2585
01:40:45,750 --> 01:40:43,199
waving right now either but yeah

2586
01:40:46,310 --> 01:40:45,760
you can okay well we'll just keep going

2587
01:40:50,550 --> 01:40:46,320
on

2588
01:40:53,189 --> 01:40:50,560
fixed

2589
01:40:55,270 --> 01:40:53,199
um the issue bill i hope you can hear me

2590
01:40:56,229 --> 01:40:55,280
bill is that i can't control anything on

2591
01:40:57,669 --> 01:40:56,239
this side

2592
01:40:59,350 --> 01:40:57,679
so when it gets to the end of the show

2593
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:59,360
you're going to have to uh you're going

2594
01:41:03,510 --> 01:41:00,560
to have to wrap things up

2595
01:41:04,790 --> 01:41:03,520
uh i and less unless i'm wrong on that

2596
01:41:06,229 --> 01:41:04,800
um

2597
01:41:08,149 --> 01:41:06,239
and i hate to do this in the middle of a

2598
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:08,159
live show but let me just

2599
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:15,270
okay nope so bill you're going to have

2600
01:41:23,830 --> 01:41:22,149
all right so the lines are open if

2601
01:41:24,229 --> 01:41:23,840
someone would like to call that number

2602
01:41:28,790 --> 01:41:24,239
again

2603
01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:28,800
is 855-472-5483

2604
01:41:33,990 --> 01:41:31,520
i want to ask you how has how have

2605
01:41:37,430 --> 01:41:34,000
things been received by say

2606
01:41:38,950 --> 01:41:37,440
uh colleagues or friends uh in the

2607
01:41:41,990 --> 01:41:38,960
this book that you have written how has

2608
01:41:46,149 --> 01:41:44,550
um it's been received well it's got some

2609
01:41:49,910 --> 01:41:46,159
nice reviews on amazon

2610
01:41:54,149 --> 01:41:52,790
you know i think i think people who take

2611
01:41:56,390 --> 01:41:54,159
the time to read

2612
01:41:59,189 --> 01:41:56,400
to read the essays see where i'm coming

2613
01:42:03,189 --> 01:41:59,199
from so that's been gratifying

2614
01:42:06,070 --> 01:42:03,199
yeah yeah and and what type of uh

2615
01:42:06,629 --> 01:42:06,080
what type of uh research did you do in

2616
01:42:13,990 --> 01:42:06,639
to

2617
01:42:15,750 --> 01:42:14,000
like a deep dive for uh a long time or

2618
01:42:18,390 --> 01:42:15,760
is this something that all came about at

2619
01:42:22,629 --> 01:42:21,350
uh i think i think it's the sort of

2620
01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:22,639
thing that's been

2621
01:42:26,830 --> 01:42:26,400
um brewing for quite a number of years

2622
01:42:30,149 --> 01:42:26,840
you know

2623
01:42:31,189 --> 01:42:30,159
like when i was in college i sort of had

2624
01:42:41,189 --> 01:42:31,199
a

2625
01:42:44,070 --> 01:42:41,199
into college thinking

2626
01:42:44,510 --> 01:42:44,080
feeling sort of like a brass tax you

2627
01:42:47,910 --> 01:42:44,520
know

2628
01:42:51,430 --> 01:42:47,920
science-oriented person and um

2629
01:42:52,950 --> 01:42:51,440
i came out of college sort of with a

2630
01:42:54,950 --> 01:42:52,960
a different attitude i was thinking of

2631
01:42:58,550 --> 01:42:54,960
myself more as an artist

2632
01:43:02,310 --> 01:42:58,560
um you know and i started looking within

2633
01:43:04,790 --> 01:43:02,320
seeing a therapist and it's sort of

2634
01:43:06,149 --> 01:43:04,800
something pivoted there and i came out

2635
01:43:08,950 --> 01:43:06,159
of college

2636
01:43:10,870 --> 01:43:08,960
as something of a seeker you know in

2637
01:43:14,550 --> 01:43:10,880
sort of a way i described earlier

2638
01:43:17,189 --> 01:43:14,560
um and so i've been reading about

2639
01:43:19,270 --> 01:43:17,199
any number of of whether it's

2640
01:43:22,470 --> 01:43:19,280
spirituality religions

2641
01:43:24,070 --> 01:43:22,480
or these sorts of phenomenon for for a

2642
01:43:27,750 --> 01:43:24,080
lot of years

2643
01:43:31,189 --> 01:43:27,760
and i feel like this this grew out of

2644
01:43:32,070 --> 01:43:31,199
um sort of a natural extension of all

2645
01:43:35,590 --> 01:43:32,080
that

2646
01:43:39,189 --> 01:43:35,600
personal experience and reading

2647
01:43:41,990 --> 01:43:39,199
and thinking amazing

2648
01:43:44,149 --> 01:43:42,000
so there is a question in chat are you

2649
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:44,159
familiar with the claims

2650
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:47,119
the phenomenon of the rainbow body i've

2651
01:43:53,590 --> 01:43:49,760
never heard of that

2652
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:53,600
no i'd be interested to hear yeah

2653
01:43:58,310 --> 01:43:56,159
it sounds it sounds really uh yeah it's

2654
01:44:00,470 --> 01:43:58,320
another interesting thing

2655
01:44:01,910 --> 01:44:00,480
it's something similar to auras or

2656
01:44:04,229 --> 01:44:01,920
something

2657
01:44:05,189 --> 01:44:04,239
actually gentlemen we have oh yeah i'm

2658
01:44:07,510 --> 01:44:05,199
not familiar with that

2659
01:44:08,310 --> 01:44:07,520
so if that person would like to call in

2660
01:44:10,070 --> 01:44:08,320
um we're

2661
01:44:13,310 --> 01:44:10,080
we still can take that you can still

2662
01:44:16,870 --> 01:44:15,189
855-472-5483 if you'd like to call in

2663
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:16,880
and explain that some more

2664
01:44:20,390 --> 01:44:19,360
and i'll see if there's other questions

2665
01:44:22,709 --> 01:44:20,400
here in chat

2666
01:44:23,590 --> 01:44:22,719
it's uh i can only do a couple things

2667
01:44:26,709 --> 01:44:23,600
here i'm not sure

2668
01:44:29,189 --> 01:44:26,719
what is going on technically but um but

2669
01:44:31,350 --> 01:44:29,199
uh bill is going to have to be steering

2670
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:31,360
the machine here for now

2671
01:44:35,430 --> 01:44:34,560
actually just set something off he

2672
01:44:37,030 --> 01:44:35,440
claims so i

2673
01:44:38,870 --> 01:44:37,040
i i'm not going to touch anything it's

2674
01:44:41,990 --> 01:44:38,880
all up to you buddy bill

2675
01:44:44,709 --> 01:44:42,000
and you want to come back in

2676
01:44:48,229 --> 01:44:44,719
yeah he's talking chris i think he has a

2677
01:44:50,629 --> 01:44:48,239
really serious delay right now oh yeah

2678
01:44:53,030 --> 01:44:50,639
he's talking don't worry

2679
01:44:54,070 --> 01:44:53,040
well we do have a caller chris for you

2680
01:44:55,910 --> 01:44:54,080
her name is joni

2681
01:44:58,229 --> 01:44:55,920
and she's from pennsylvania so tony

2682
01:44:59,830 --> 01:44:58,239
you're uh i'm just gonna have to wrap it

2683
01:45:00,390 --> 01:44:59,840
up on my end because i'm having some

2684
01:45:04,149 --> 01:45:00,400
type of

2685
01:45:07,750 --> 01:45:04,159
really bad issues here i understand

2686
01:45:08,149 --> 01:45:07,760
you can hear me so um just to let you

2687
01:45:11,430 --> 01:45:08,159
know

2688
01:45:14,470 --> 01:45:11,440
our guests next week

2689
01:45:16,390 --> 01:45:14,480
are going to be paul askoff

2690
01:45:17,669 --> 01:45:16,400
and for the second hour is going to be

2691
01:45:23,189 --> 01:45:17,679
ross

2692
01:45:24,149 --> 01:45:23,199
australian journalist that has uh

2693
01:45:26,390 --> 01:45:24,159
written

2694
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:26,400
a book kind of punishing the media for

2695
01:45:31,270 --> 01:45:27,840
not paying attention

2696
01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:31,280
or giving ufos much attention chris

2697
01:45:36,550 --> 01:45:34,480
i can you still hear me i can yes

2698
01:45:37,830 --> 01:45:36,560
all right i want to thank you so much

2699
01:45:39,990 --> 01:45:37,840
and uh anyone

2700
01:45:41,669 --> 01:45:40,000
you you can hold up the book i can't see

2701
01:45:42,950 --> 01:45:41,679
you but i'll trust that you can hold up

2702
01:45:44,950 --> 01:45:42,960
the book

2703
01:45:46,629 --> 01:45:44,960
and anyone can find that over on amazon

2704
01:45:49,350 --> 01:45:46,639
that will be over

2705
01:45:50,310 --> 01:45:49,360
uh in the show links uh tonight if you'd

2706
01:45:52,550 --> 01:45:50,320
like to

2707
01:45:54,550 --> 01:45:52,560
uh pick up that book the link will be

2708
01:45:58,390 --> 01:45:54,560
right there

2709
01:46:00,629 --> 01:45:58,400
so uh that's it for the show everyone

2710
01:46:02,629 --> 01:46:00,639
and thank you so much for uh for

2711
01:46:04,390 --> 01:46:02,639
watching sorry we have again uh

2712
01:46:05,510 --> 01:46:04,400
technical difficulties out here on the

2713
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:05,520
show

2714
01:46:08,870 --> 01:46:08,000
so we'll be back next week at the same

2715
01:46:10,830 --> 01:46:08,880
time

2716
01:46:12,550 --> 01:46:10,840
and remember to keep your eyes to the

2717
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:12,560
sky